Episode 108: Overcoming Financial Trauma with Aja Evans

Acquania Escarne 0:04

You are listening to the Purpose of Money podcast, a podcast where we talk about ways to build wealth and create more freedom in your life today. I am your host Acquania Escarne.

Acquania Escarne 0:16

Hey guys, welcome back to the Purpose of Money Podcast. Today I'm super excited. I'm going to be talking with Aja, who was a board certified therapist, speaker and writer who helps people talk openly about money and emotions. Aja is a board certified therapist, speaker and writer specialising in financial wellness. With over a decade of experience in mental health. Aja was consistently hearing about the emotional impact of how people interact with their money. This was also familiar having gone through her own journey of financial literacy and reckoning with the feelings regarding her relationship with money. Aja made it a pillar in her work to help others feel supportive in their financial journeys with a master's in Counselling Psychology training with the financial Therapy Association, and our certificate from the centre of the financial Social Work. Aja is committed to assisting people in the intersection of mental health, and all things money. Aja has been quoted in major news outlets such as Bloomberg, The Washington Post, well plus good and NerdWallet just to name a few, coined the feel good financial therapist, Aja is on a mission to get more people engaged in living their best life while attuning to their thoughts, feelings and behaviours around money. Hey, Aja, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

Aja Evans 1:45

Hi, I'm doing pretty good. Thank you so much for having me.

Acquania Escarne 1:49

I'm excited to talk about all things money, because at the Purpose of Money, that is what we do. But a lot of people do not like to talk about financial trauma, and what impacts their relationship with money. So before we get into this deep conversation, I want to first know your money story. What was money like for you when you were growing up?

Aja Evans 2:11

Sure. So I grew up in a pretty stable financial situation. So I live in New York City area right now. But I grew up in upstate New York. And I would say at that time, the middle class kind of existed a little bit more than we look at it today. And we were very much so middle class. So I didn't want for anything, I went to private schools. And in upstate New York, when I say private, it is not the same as where it might look in other places. I'm talking like a very small, like maybe 100 students, Catholic school, because at the time, most of the private schools were Catholic, where I live, so nothing like too too fancy. I think people sometimes hear private school and think very Catholic. That's not what my experience

Acquania Escarne 2:57

It can be. But I am a private school graduate, my high school was a private school, but I was going there on a scholarship. So I was able to access the top level education in Georgia area, and also board at a boarding school where I could learn independence, and also take advanced college preparatory classes to really prepare for college. So I think that people shouldn't take any bias to anyone who went to a private school, because a lot of times, that is the opportunities that were available. And they help you level up in so many ways. Like in my case, going to a private school expose me to different cultures and people, and also gave me an opportunity to become a little bit more independent at a time where most students were still kind of not as open or exposed and definitely had a more sheltered life. So I love that about you, and thanks for sharing. So how did you get to where you are now a financial therapist and helping people with their relationship with money, like what inspired you to pursue that particular path?

Aja Evans 4:04

Well, it came about through my own personal experience. So I had been living in New York and working in mental health. I've worked all over the mental health industry. So anywhere from working with young kids, I'm talking as young as three all the way up to working with seniors, I've worked in individual settings as well as in hospital setting. So what I realised when I was going through my own money journey was just nobody was talking about the emotions and as I was learning my own personal finance education, I would bring that back to my session. So whenever my clients would bring up money and kind of some thoughts about their money or debt or navigating it, I would hop right on on top of it to really dive into those conversations because I felt like nobody was having the in depth route conversation about their money. They would talk about oh, I have it I don't have it type of thing, but nothing that went further than that. So I really made space within my practice to start having conversations. And then I found associations, like the financial Therapy Association, and found community and that and was like, Oh, yes, this is exactly what I need to be talking about. I had already loved personal finance and just kind of reading the books and the information I was learning. So being able to combine the two of my prefers my professional career in mental health, and what I was already doing my love of personal finance, and really knowing that people needed to talk about their the emotional side of money was just a match made in heaven for me.

Acquania Escarne 5:35

I love that. And I want to talk about financial trauma. So most people may not say those words together quite often. But I've noticed that some of the things we know about money stem from what our parents taught us about money, or experiences we had. So for example, I'm really good with money, because my dad gave me the book Rich Dad Poor Dad at 16. And I implemented as much as I could from that book as possible. But you'll have others who are spenders, for example, because they've only witnessed their family spend money after getting a lot of it. And they've had to teach themselves as adults how to budget and spend less, what are some of the other things you've seen that would be defined as financial trauma? Or how would you define that for listeners today.

Aja Evans 6:24

So the way I would define a financial trauma is any situation circumstance, that brought about a level of transition, or change and sometimes traumatic event that has to do with money. So that could be something as major as, hey, we came into a lot of money. And that meant that I had to leave all of my friends, I left all my school, I left all my activities, and we moved. Now I think a lot of times, you can look at gaining income as a good thing. And that is true. That could be really positive for a family. But if you're eight, and you see that you don't have your friends anymore, and you're not in a place that you used to recognise that can come with a transition, that could be a financial trauma, as well as, for example, not having money, if your parent lost a job, and there was a bankruptcy, or if you were evicted from your home, or if there was food insecurity. So financial traumas really do span from wealth all the way to not having money. But I think a lot of times we kind of sit in the not having enough space, especially because we know that people of colour and black wealth is significantly less than some of our white counterparts. So looking at it from that lens, because a lot of the people I am working with look like me, we have experienced some things that some of our white counterparts have not had to experience because there isn't the welfare. So financial trauma can come in all different shapes and sizes. And its people have experienced it in some way, shape, or form. And I think it's really easy to say that you haven't because we don't like the word trauma, and that for people is really difficult to hold.

Acquania Escarne 8:13

Absolutely. I completely agree with you. And I think that people of colour tend to suffer more and or don't necessarily have the resources to rebound and recover, which is so important. And I think just like you might have therapists help you do any struggle, or circumstances you've gone through, you can actually use financial therapists to help you get through your finances, and how do you get to a better state, even after maybe learning bad money habits, or even experiencing your own money trauma? So what are some of your top three tips for listeners today on how they can identify if they have a problem? And how recommend they solve them? So what are some signs that you might have some bad money habits?

Aja Evans 9:03

So one major thing is, I would say, looking at your patterns, if you find that you are consistently overspending, or is there a place that you consistently feel bad about your money, so really looking at, hey, I experienced this last month, and last month, I felt that way. And you know what, I have always felt that way. So really getting comfortable and honest with yourself for what other patterns that you are seeing in your money habits. So that's one way. Another way would be to identify when you don't feel good, right? So even if you have enough money or you're in a comfortable position, but you're not feeling good with your money, it might not be the overspending it might just, I don't want to move that much money out of my account or this is a barrier looking at the barrier of doing something that might be financially healthy for you, and why that might be difficult. So those are a few signs that it might be time to start having a conversation about where your money mindset is and where your emotional state is when it comes to money. And when it comes to tips, I am going to first say that the work we're talking about right now can be really deep. If we are going back to childhood, and looking at your relationship with your family, and how you grew up, that can be really, really difficult for people and really hard to be honest, especially in our communities. We want to respect what our parents and what our family have done for us. And I think we can do that while admitting that this was difficult for you. And sometimes with my clients, I find that just saying that something was difficult means that they don't agree with their parents or didn't like their childhood. No, that is not at all what I'm trying to say. But I do want to leave room to just say, hey, this was a little hard on me. And I wish it was a little different.

Acquania Escarne 11:04

No, that's so good. And I think at first admitting that there's a problem is part of getting to the solution. But then also understanding that there's room to discover what it is that happened, and also who you're going to be in the aftermath, right? money mindset was a key word that she just shared in your answer. And I want to first have you define what is money mindset? And what are some of your tips to change that for yourself? If you realise you're not in a positive money, mindset space, or you need to adopt a positive money mindset to improve?

Aja Evans 11:42

Yeah, so the way I look at money mindset is the way you think, feel and behave about money. What is your perception of money? What is your perception of yourself in your own money story, and your money mindset is created by your money story, the things that you heard, the things you experience, the things you were told, listen to observe, all of that is going to go into what your beliefs about money are in, that feeds your money mindset. So that's the way that I define it. And ways to kind of start shifting, it is recognising when you have negative narratives or parts of your money story that are no longer serving you. So some of the examples we used earlier, and we're discussing, some of those beliefs may seep into how you look at money and how you think and feel and behave with money. So looking at those money narratives do they apply to your life now. So for example, I had a client who was grew up in a situation where she was food insecure, so she would split her meals regularly. Now she is not food insecure, and is very stable, but she found herself subconsciously splitting her meals without even thinking about it, she was just kind of doing it. So when we discovered she was doing yet we had to do some work on how to you honour that that was part of your story, and then decide that you need to put that belief down, because it does not apply to your life anymore. And I want to give that to the audience and everybody who's listening and say, think about what your money beliefs are? And do they still apply to your life right now? It may have served you in the past. But does it still serve you now? And then trying to unlearn those through affirmations? Just looking at your money? Sometimes you just say No, I'm okay. I know I have it, I know I have taken the necessary steps to be stable.

Acquania Escarne 13:40

I love that example. Because that's one that she was doing naturally, unconsciously, and probably consistently until you brought to her attention. And I know that there are other listeners who have habits like that, that they don't even realise they still do, because their parents did it or because they used to be in a situation where it was necessary. So I love the other tip you gave about like looking at your money, right? So some people come from an abundance mindset, which means you believe money is abundant, and it will constantly flow to you. Like you'll say things like I am a money magnet, or I can attract money, good things and good opportunities, great affirmations, by the way, so take those down. But then you'll have other people who will come from a scarcity mindset, meaning they always feel broke or feel like they need to hold on to whatever money they have as though is their last dollar. So actually looking at the bank account sometimes will give you that sense of relief. But I think you have to go a step further and actually have a plan so you know that that money is going to be put to good use, and it will ensure you're not broke. So like, for example with my clients, we do a financial analysis to review their numbers and in that analysis, we also look forward to retirement and we see whether or not you're going to have a shortfall in retirement If you keep going to where you're going, or if you're going to have enough money in retirement based on what you're doing, or even if you were to increase, and a lot of times, that is the outlook, they need to either correct or to comfort, right, knowing that there's a plan, and if I stick to this plan, it will help ensure my future security. So I love that. And I know that there are so many ways that you and I are helping clients in the midst of what they're going through to realise that there is a future a bright future ahead, right.

Aja Evans 15:32

Yeah, and I am so happy you brought up a plan because that really does help decrease anxiety, when you know that you have something to look back at and say, Hey, this is the plan to get me to the financial goals that are important to me. I, you know, whatever it might be, I want to buy a house, I want a bigger emergency fund, I want to take that really fancy trip, whatever it might be. Sometimes going back to your plan allows you to decrease the anxiety and may not work all the time. And I think there are always going to be extremes, right? I'm not telling you to check your your bank accounts morning, noon and night. But knowing that you have something to fall back on knowing that you have a plan, knowing that you're making those steps can be really helpful.

Acquania Escarne 16:13

Absolutely. So I do have a question. We've talked a lot about one on one. But do you also help couples? Do you have any advice for couples who may be coming from completely different financial backgrounds? And now they're looking to blend their finances?

Aja Evans 16:27

Yes. So I do work with couples as well. And yeah, I mean, you know, couples and money, hot button topic for many people. And it can be really difficult when you're moving towards blending your money and figuring out a financial system that works for the both of you. My top top top tip for people, it's going to be communicate, please talk to your partners early and often about money. And I think sometimes it it does, it feels like it's too early, and you don't want to have that conversation and the relationship continues, which is a beautiful thing. That's what we want, you get more serious. And then you are two years into your marriage. And now you're having these financial conversations. No, no, no, please go back and start having these money conversations early and often. So what's the goal for you? What's the goal for your partner? What are the goals that you have together, communicate about what's going on, when it's appropriate in your relationship, start having conversations about lifestyle, and if you have debt and what you want to grow and build together, and that will help ensure that you're on a path together, not separately, no matter how you manage your money. You two want to be communicating consistently about what is important for the both of you and your family.

Acquania Escarne 17:45

Absolutely. I love that advice. And it's so funny, my husband and I, for the 100th episode of the Purpose of Money podcast, we did an episode together. And although we've been married for 15 years, he's never been on my show. And we had some really interesting money conversations, we shared a little bit about how we handle money, who's the CFO versus the CEO in the family. And then we talked about like some of our biggest money mistakes as a couple. So I definitely agree with you that talking to your partner often is key. And that's what's helped us get through so many years together. But then also being vulnerable, not necessarily on a podcast, but to each other when you make mistakes and being honest about that. So I'll definitely leave a link to Episode 100 in the show notes. So you can check it out. If you haven't heard me and my husband on the show. But Aja, this has really been helpful. I love the tips that you've been giving. But I have one last question for you. Because this is the Purpose of Money podcast, I asked all my guests this question, what is your purpose for money.

Aja Evans 18:53

So my purpose for money is really to build a sense of stability for myself, for my family. I really want to be able to create generational wealth not just for my kids, but I want to be able to pass it on directly to my grandkids, myself too. And then when it comes, that's my personal right. And then when it comes to professionally, I just want people in my community who look like me, and then all people to feel better about their money. I think people feel so awful, and start to turn it inward and it impacts how they feel about themselves and their self esteem when it comes to money. And I think with naming the feelings and having these conversations and financial education and learning how to grow your money and feel good doing it. We are only going to help everybody lift up and that is really what my purpose with money is to.

Acquania Escarne 19:48

I love it. That is an excellent answer. Before we wrap up, please let my listeners know how can they connect with you and follow you on social media and find your website?

Aja Evans 19:59

Sure, so I'm on the socials, I'm on IG and Tik Tok at Aja E Therapy. And you can find me on LinkedIn as well. And my website is Ajaevanscounseling.com.

Acquania Escarne 20:11

I will definitely include links to all of that in the show notes. I encourage you guys to check out Aja's website and her services if you are interested. And always remember, if you liked this show, please share it with someone who needs to hear it too. And leave a five star review wherever you are listening. Aja, thank you so much for being on the Purpose of Money, I can't wait to talk to you again. And for those of you who are going to tune in next week, I want you to keep building generational wealth. Until next time, bye bye.

Aja Evans 20:44

Bye.

Acquania Escarne 20:45

Thank you for listening to the Purpose of Money podcast. For more resources and information, check out my website, thepurposeofmoney.com and while you're there, please sign up for our newsletter so you have the latest information on new episodes and blog posts. Until next time, keep creating freedom in your life today.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai