Episode 115: How to Do Business with Friends with Kala Garner and Denise Gilmore

Acquania Escarne 0:00

What's up guys? Welcome back to the Purpose of Money Podcast. Today we are going to talk about how to do business with friends. You are listening to the Purpose of Money podcast, a podcast where we talk about ways to build wealth and create more freedom in your life today. I am your host Acquania Escarne

Acquania Escarne 0:20

Hey everybody, I'm super excited. Today we have our first show with two guest two dynamic deltas. My sores are here today with me. I'm joined with Kala and Denise and they are the magic behind Betterness Box by Simply Better Co. some say doing business with friends is a bad idea. Right? I'm sure you've heard of it. However, these two perfectionist recovering sorority sisters have who met in college were able to come together almost two decades ago and provide that Old Age philosophy myth and dispel it right, like come together, do dynamic things and make a business. So today we're gonna talk about how Kayla Garner and Denise Gilmore McPherson met in San Diego State California. They're natives there, they came together and decided to put their interests and passion to support and inspire others to into a business. And I love the fact that we're going to talk about what Betterness Box does, how they address wellness, and how they help women. We recently collaborated on a Instagram Live and that turned into the show because I said I need to tell more of your story. And I really want to share how you guys are able to do business as friends. So without further ado, welcome Kayla. Welcome the knees. Thank you for being on the Purpose of Money podcast.

Kala Garner 1:42

Thank you for having us.

Acquania Escarne 1:44

Absolutely. So this is exciting, because you guys didn't just start yesterday, your company was founded in 2018. And you've been really intentional about inspiring women to live a life that's better, that allows us to be healthy and whole, you know, one day at a time. So can you tell me what does that really mean? Because it sounds great. But what does that look like in real life?

Kala Garner 2:11

Yeah, I think we are truly recovering perfectionist, right? So when we say that, as a part of our kind of introduction, we definitely our two women who have high standards for ourselves, right? The people we're connected to. And I think out of that came this whole love to say, we want to be a little bit more impactful with what we do, right? It's outside of our nine to five. And that's what we're gonna do. And so having that in common, I think is one of the foundations of kind of what it meant for us to partner together. That's kind of my first take on it. Denise, I don't know if you have a different kind of perspective.

Denise Gilmore 2:58

Yeah, no, I think Kayla and I really, truly came together and organically built betterness box and simply better code, because we kind of do have two sides of the business. But we came together. And we really just started doing research. And I think that what it meant for us in those early stages was, you know, we were in our mid 30s. And you know, lower, lower 30s, mid 30s professional woman very much working and building and growing in corporate America, and also living our lives, right living lives fully. And we wanted to kind of I think we came together and really started doing research, but then also creating something that like we felt that we needed, as black women who were, like I said, climbing the corporate ladder and things of that sort in that research, what we found was it really kind of took consistency, habit and routine building activities, and then being intentional about it. Right. So I think one of the things that we often say is that like as black women, we tend to put ourselves on the backburner. Our goal was to help you kind of like not, not necessarily not prioritise everybody else, but knowing that you are the backbone of community and that you do prioritise everybody else, do something that can start to kind of remind you to take yourself off the back burner and show up a little bit more automated and intentional. So that's how the subscription component of our business really started to come into play. When it was like, Oh, we actually need to be doing something consistently. And we need something to remind us to be doing that consistently. Otherwise, you kind of it might spark up self care might spark up in your mind every, you know, six months or so.

Acquania Escarne 4:33

Which is not enough. I'm one who subscribes to monthly massages and then forgets to book them. So I literally I saw a post the other day that was like my friend had just had a facial and a massage and I was like, Oh, I'm overdue. And that was my reminder, right? It wasn't intentional. It was just look somebody posted this you're watching it, take the message, do the action. So I booked an appointment, but I'm supposed to be going monthly you know, so That's definitely something I can relate to, especially as a busy mom and a wife and an entrepreneur. Like sometimes we're juggling so many things where we don't think we have time. Or if we don't make the time, it just doesn't happen. So I think it's good. You're pushing women to be intentional. But Do either of you come from an entrepreneurship background? Like, how did you just really want to create this business? Because not everybody has that courage?

Kala Garner 5:28

True, very true. I think each of us have had our like, kind of experiences. I've always said, I've been an entrepreneur since I was nine, because that's when I first started selling candy to my neighbours and the kids at school, right, you go and get your bulk candy at a lower price. And then you flip it right to your friends. And then I had a few other little businesses after that. And then I have a YouTube channel. So I was creating content on YouTube. In the natural hair space, doing reviews, and doing brand partnerships, I did you know, all kinds of red carpet events and movie premieres and things like that, around the concept of like black hair and wellness and what it means to like, truly come into your own as a black woman as we were on this journey, right of self discovery as black women in America around our natural hair. And so for me, I've always wanted to be in the space of making sure we're empowering women, right? Whether that be tours, I had like a tour going on called I define me, which was sponsored by like eat and body works and shea moisture and cream of nature. And so after that, I was like, Okay, what does this look like to be more tangible? Right? As I'm talking to these women on YouTube, I'm giving reviews of these products out here that are really by the big businesses that aren't the greatest, right? Sometimes the products aren't the greatest. What would it look like to then start to feature some products that are by and made by black women owned businesses. So it's always been intentional, even from I'm sure what Denise is gonna say about her kind of journey to this. It's always been okay, I want to do this. But then I also want to highlight other women doing it right. And so that's a part of the ethos of our company as well. So yeah, girl entrepreneurship is in their own real estate, Airbnb, like all the things,

Acquania Escarne 7:25

Right, come on, somebody

Kala Garner 7:28

still in corporate, but there's nothing wrong with that. Okay, get your benefit.

Acquania Escarne 7:32

Yeah. I love it. I love it. So what's your take on it? Boom. Yeah, I

Denise Gilmore 7:37

think Kala is definitely our little, in our little group, the serial entrepreneur of the two of us. I actually think at the time, I do have kind of entrepreneur backgrounds as well, at the time that we actually started betterness box, I was doing photography, full time on the side of my day job as well. I'm here in Chicago. So I did a lot of like sports, you know, the marathons and all that kind of sports and events photography around here in Chicago, and also had a photo booth at some point. And so I think that was probably the start of, you know, where I was actually, when we started to brainstorm about Betterness box and things of that sort. I was doing some entrepreneur endeavours on the side. And for me, I think I've always, um, I was, I'm lucky to like, I studied marketing, I studied advertising and things in college. And then a lot of times people are like, I don't even use my college degree, but I actually built a career in marketing. And so I am very intentional about the jobs in corporate America that I take as well. And so I've like, enjoy my jobs, right. I'm not a person who's like, Okay, I went to school for this. And now I'm just doing this thing completely separate because of, this is what I have to do to make money. I've always been very intentional about what I do for my actual career. And so a lot of what I'm able to do on the side is really driven by purpose and passion for me. And so when Kala and I started to build, it was very intentional because I wasn't necessarily like doing this because like this, my money is taken care of right from my corporate job. And so like the photography, the the veteran is box and yoga, I'm a certified yoga instructor is multiple different things that I've done that are truly driven by like, Denise enjoys doing this, if I happen to make money with it, by all means, that's amazing too. But my kind of like side hustles, if you will have really been driven by just my own interests and passion, because I also am fulfilling, you know, the monetary needs and things of that sort through jobs. And I'm also extremely intentional about when I'm selecting you know, where I'm going to work and how I'm going to spend my time.

Acquania Escarne 9:42

Yeah, I love that. And I think that's important. And even though I am in full time entrepreneurship now like for years, I was in the government for 15 years and running my businesses and enjoying that opportunity to pick and choose my clients and not have you know, this desire to take any everyone who wants to work with me because you may not always be a good fit. And I still do that I'm a full time entrepreneur, but I still choose, you know, I talk to people about life insurance, I talk to people about investing in real estate. But if we're not a good fit, I'm happy to say, you know, like, Hey, here's some other people you can work with. But I love that, you know, you have that freedom, right? You have that freedom to go towards your passion, but then also make it purpose driven. So you're not doing things that are crazy, or compromising your integrity because you're trying to pay your bills. So I think that's super important to highlight. But I love to know, you know, the two of you have very different skills. Right? So Denise, you said you have a marketing background. And I know you focus on like partnerships and getting your company out there to collaborate with other organisations. And then Kala, you are the ways behind designing systems, spaces and experiences. So I do have questions for each of you. And then maybe we'll come back to working together with friends. So let's start with Kala, let's do your round of fire questions. So my first question to you is, as someone who's focused on designing spaces, places and experiences, you know, what are your your tips for entrepreneurs who want to create great experiences for their audience? How do you do that? In your capacity, either virtually or in person?

Kala Garner 11:28

That's a great to Great question. Because we do it all right. So yes, I think my like overarching, right, kind of who I am is just designer, right? I love to design systems. That's what I do in my full time job as an engineer, and then spaces and experiences, obviously, through interior design, or Airbnb. And then with veteran and Xbox, it's all about the experience, it literally is an experience. So virtually, you know, especially in the pandemic, we couldn't like, get together, right and do a lot of the things we were doing even prior right around wellness and classes, right, all the things that we used to do yoga classes, and getting together to do activities, arts and crafts, whatever that looks like for, you know, wellness for you and your mental health. Right. And so the betterness box is one of those experiences that Denise and I came together and, and really thought about like, what does it look like to get what we want, right? Like, when we experience a bad like product, we remember that, right? It's like, oh, this packaging is ugly. Why is this colour like this? Right? When it comes in the mail? Why does it look like X, Y and Z? Right? We know what it feels like to get a box. And we're like, whoa, right? We know what it feels like to say, Oh, my betterness boxes here. This is the experience of a lot of our customers are my Betterness boxes here. And now I'm going to place this to the side because I want to have an experience with it. Like they literally wait to experience it because they know it's going to be an experience, they know once they open it, there's going to be a card for them to go through, it's going to have a theme, it's going to say, hey, for the next three months, we want you to experience this, we want you to focus on this habit, or building this habit. We want them to smell, touch, feel, right and really, really get into the things that we've created. Because we do think about the five senses when we put these together. So putting an experience together that's you know, something that's delivered, right? It's not something that like somebody gave you at an event, it's something that just gets delivered. So it feels virtual, it feels like oh, this is automated, it comes to my door every three months. And they're able to really understand and get to know the product. So it's really fun to think through those things. And I think the tips that I would give is just think about what you like, right? Think about what you like to experience as a black woman. A lot of the time these companies again, these large companies forget about what we like, right? Make sure that the wording says this girl girlfriend, right? What do you use? What what wording do you use? What colours do you like to use? What hues and colours right when it comes to the packaging? And the artistry and the design of what it is that you're putting together? Is it a black face? And is it the range of colours that we come in as black women? Right, we're that's how intentional we are at betterness box and I think that translates to a lot of our customers because you don't get to see that often. We use these products that you know everyday products, but they don't always market to us, right? You can think of all because, you know commercials on TV for products that don't even include people who look like us in their ads and so but we use those things every day. And so what does it look like to use products that you know a company is very intentional about like who is it that is representing our brands, who are we showing using it? Who are we showing right and then I think with spaces when we are in person very rarely. So we scan betterness box events or betterness box table or we're going to a marketplace, you better come out because we do not do them often. But it is an entire experience. We talk to the customers who come up to our booth and talk through like, what is their wellness routine look like today? What is their self care routine look like today, we have a self care quiz that should be launching on our website soon. But we have them take that QR code and go through hey, let's actually prescribe you around what it is that your self care self care archetype, you know, your personality is when it comes to self care. And then what does it look like to then say, okay, these are the great things that are about my, my wellness site. But here are things that I should be working on just because this is the kind of self care person I am I put a little bit too much towards, you know, hanging out with people and I need to do a little bit more isolation and stillness and time by myself. So things like it's a whole mathematical situation in the background of that, right, and designing that took hours and hours and hours for us to be able to give that as a gift, right to our audience, our subscribers so that they can do a better job of making sure they're taking care of themselves. And so that's when you say that we're very intentional. That's the kind of intentionality that comes with what it looks like to be a part of the veteran Xbox community and those skills that I've learned over the years, being an engineer, or being out in spaces, and designing them matters, because it's all about what you're touching, you're seeing everything that's aesthetically pleasing. It's a luxury box. So we want to make sure you feel like this is a gift of luxury when you're getting it, whether it's for yourself or for someone else. And so it's been really fun to create that. And hopefully those tips help.

Acquania Escarne 16:51

Yeah, no great tips. And I totally agree. Sometimes we do need to think about our own experiences. And a lot of times, that's why we create businesses, right? Because we looked for something or we needed something and it wasn't there. So we created it. But now I want to talk to Denise because Denise, you are focused on partnerships, which I feel like so many Solo Entrepreneurs don't do. Right, they are so focused on being the woman who does it all that they don't think about leveraging partnerships. So can you tell me, you know, what types of partnerships do you guys pursue? And why? And what tips do you have if someone's looking to collaborate?

Denise Gilmore 17:32

Yeah, so I mean, I think the, the, by the, at the core of our business, we are a partnership, right with myself and Kala, and the intention really starts there. I think that in other types of partnerships that we actually engage in. So each of our box is a little bit of a partnership, right? If you think about it, we have to include a book in four to six other items. We are very intentional, our our business ethos is kind of Kayla mentioned earlier really is can we be promoting other small owned businesses, other black owned businesses, other women owned businesses. So we are intentionally seeking out those types of partnerships that are also bringing quality products to the market. We are also looking at the subscription model, like we are intentionally bringing awareness to those brands. And we intentionally want our customers to actually continue to support these brands. And so all of that is really built around collaboration and partnership from the beginning of really, how we structured our business. I think in terms of some of the my background and partnerships, I've been in marketing, partner marketing, actually, more specifically, for 15 ish years or so in my corporate job.

Denise Gilmore 18:43

I've worked, you know, at movie related company doing, you know, partnerships with like General Mills, and oriented all the big snacks and popcorn brands, McDonald's things of that sort. So I've done partnerships on a like a very large scale. But some of the things that I think that really, really helped at the beginning of like, okay, I'm doing all of this by myself, Do I need a partner? Right? Do I need a partner in business? Do I need a partner in kind of like just for this one campaign or for this project? will it create like ease, right? So if I'm partnering with somebody, I wanted to actually like make my life easier, right? That's one way that you could just say, like, do I need to even consider doing this right? I'm stressed out. Like we always say, we're a self care business. So there's no reason that like Kayla, or Denise should ever be extremely stressed out. Because otherwise, like, we're not using our own product. We're not like tapping into our own thing that we've created, right? So one of them is like ease. Another one is are we aligned from like a purpose and passion? perspective, right? When you're thinking about like a business partner specifically. All of that starts with Do you understand your own purpose and passion and reason, right? So if I don't understand what I'm trying to achieve, I can't come to the table and communicate to somebody when I'm actually looking for in a collaboration or in a partnership, right. And if they don't understand that, then they can't do that as well. And then that's how you kind of, you can kind of get thrown off by a partnership or thrown off by a collaboration is if I don't understand what I'm actually trying to do here, or why it makes sense to actually create this partnership from the beginning. Another thing that you should look at is, is this complimentary, right? So I could be doing something great, right? Like, as you mentioned, Kayla, and I have very different backgrounds. But then we have a lot of things in common as well. So we have very calm, we've come together in a way that's very complimentary in terms of like, she brings certain things that say, Well, we both touch all aspects of the business, because we are also, you know, those people, and we get in where we fit in.

Denise Gilmore 20:43

However, there are times when it's like, okay, like, Kayla got this, or she'll be like, listen, Denise, I don't know anything about this. But this is your lane. So we complement each other at different times in the relationship, right. And you know, growing a business over five years, you see all different types of scenarios, I'm actually benefits to have somebody who mentally we have the same mindset, we have the same work ethic, right? However, we have different skill sets that come to the table. So we can each kind of like ebb and flow and step in, to kind of fill the gaps when we need. And then another thing is a couple two other things, when it comes to like products and things that your audience alignment, right. So like, do the products that we put in our box? Are they going to resonate with our audience? Right? So we know that we're intentionally looking for black owned women owned small businesses? Does our audience actually want that? And are those custom are those products also seeking to reach an audience that's similar to ours, which is black women who are intentional about their self care?

Denise Gilmore 21:41

We have to be thinking about all of that in the background. And then the last simple thing, right, when you're thinking about do I want to work with somebody this is at the business level, at the partnership level at the campaign level, is can we actually work together? Right? Do we have? Do we have rapport? Is there mutual respect? Do we know how to communicate to each other, there are certain different things that you have to really pay attention to when it comes to longevity in a partnership versus we're going to do this one off campaign? I realised? Well, there's been times when Caitlin and I have been at the beginning of forming a partnership. So the there's contracts drafted. And I looked at Caitlin was like, this one might be good to let go. You know what I mean? Like, I don't write, like, after all our

Denise Gilmore 22:29

and which is fine, right? At the hour, at the beginning of you have to do your due diligence when it comes to partnerships to determine, you know, do we actually want this like from, from my perspective, we think of all of our individual products that come into a box, as a potential long term relationship, right? You can do a box takeover, or you can be featured on our podcast, you can be featured in some content, we could show up at an event with you and do a co branded pop up, we have multiple different ways that we can partner with people with people, sometimes getting your product in the box is just the first. The first little touch of engagement, right? Getting a book in the box or getting whatever in the box is just the first engagement. And things can build from there we can we do consulting, right? So we can help you build your own box from having your product in the box. multiple different ways that we partner with people. But can we work together is something that should always be at the core of what you're asking yourself when you're actually starting to form a partnership or collaboration with anybody as well. So I know, a lot of different things there. But like, oh, I have this friend that does this. And you know, I'm just gonna go talk to her about whatever, like, you should be very intentional from the beginning of every engagement. Yes.

Acquania Escarne 23:40

Now, I think it's true. And I think that's where we don't always do the work because we know they do something, you know, like, it's like one of those, oh, I have this great idea. Who do I know that does subscription boxes and then they're like, Oh, D. And then they don't even look into other options or you know, suggestions because they only know that one person but then they don't know that person's work ethic. They've never seen that person deliver on certain things. So a lot of times you can be the people watcher, right, like just subs, I always tell people like before you pursue the partnership, watch the person, right? Are they showing up on social media to promote their own products? Because if they don't show up for themselves, they're probably not going to promote the collaboration, right? Or how do they execute on in live events? And you know, is everyone like, oh my god, this was amazing. When's the next one? Or are they late, rushing? unprepared? You know, like, those are the things that I look for.

Acquania Escarne 24:39

And then if I see someone that has that same work ethic as me and we have a thing that we can do together, then it's like, okay, let's make magic like one of them. A few years ago in the middle of COVID, a friend and I who both are podcasters came together to do a podcast series on women of colour who are like crushing it an entrepreneur worship or have some really interesting money stories. And we got three grants to help make that happen. She's the grant writer expert. I'm the person who loves to find the guests. So I found the guest, she found the grants, boom, we come together and we make magic. But that first grant application we wrote together, you know, just because she's the grant writer, doesn't mean I can't contribute. And I'm a writer to write. So we had to schedule time to do that project together, identify the grants that we were willing to align with, and see if we would be a good fit, and then do the work. But once we had this, the questions or the template for how we will respond to questions, then my partner shout out to Danielle's ear was able to apply to more grants using the template, you know, because she knew my opinion and my perspective, and I knew her work ethic.

Acquania Escarne 25:51

So I was like, I'm gonna lock in these guests. So I can we can fulfil our grant obligations, you unlock and more grants, and we're gonna make this work. So I think that's true. But I want to talk about the other side of it, too, because you mentioned this a contract, a joint venture agreement, like, let's talk about the paperwork, because I feel like some people don't do that. And then they're upset when someone doesn't do their part. I have a friend and other business, great business entrepreneur, partner with someone and was like, she didn't promote the event. As much as I did. All the people that came were my people. Okay, well, what did y'all agree to? What did you put into a joint venture agreement? And she's like, What joint venture agreement so as to friends and sores who came together? What were some of the first things you did before creating your partnership? And yeah, and let's start there. So what are some of the first things you do?

Denise Gilmore 26:47

Oh, can I actually just I, so I told you, I work in partnerships at work, and we don't do anything, we might have an introductory conversation. And then it's like, okay, well, let's get an NDA on file. And let's get a master services agreement or joint promotion agreement or whatever, what have you depending on, you know, however you chose to go about that. I wanted to just add this because I actually have wrote this down when you were just talking. Kayla, and i are i did wasn't an idea before we like we had a contract in place a partnership agreement in place. Before we had an idea, right? So I think sometimes when you're like, I want to actually work with this person. We had introductory conversation. We're like sands that, like a couple ideas, let's get a partnership agreement in place that says that we're going to do this and we're going to explore this. We let it breathe. We built the idea and the concept together. But we knew that we were going to be working on that. Right. So I would say we started, like I said, typically, it's two documents, right NDA, like, let's make sure that everybody understands what's confidential and what's not in what we can be sharing. And then the other thing is some form of partnership agreement master services agreement, just depending on what that engagement is going to entail is going to determine like what type of actual Partnership Agreement is going to be needed. And it's typically that that's, you know, a five to seven page paper, you can get it from multiple different places, right?

Denise Gilmore 28:13

You can go to Legal Zoom, or you can actually work with we have an attorney that we that we work with, that can help with, you know, drafting contracts and things of that sort. Should we need that. But yeah, I would say I would just keep it as simple as that, like, always have an NDA, and then in your joint promotion agreement, sometimes you don't know what the outcomes gonna be. But just make sure that it's very clear in there, like you were just saying, what are each person's individual responsibilities or us as a collective company? What are our company's responsibilities? And what are the actual deliverables that are going to be the output of this? Right? I think that that's a piece that people oftentimes miss. And we're able to with our clients, refer back to that, right? Because I think that you will get, I call it projects, like, what do I call it? Creep? Like, oh, creep,

Acquania Escarne 29:00

yeah.

Denise Gilmore 29:02

You know, like, money, I'm signing this, and I get everything and you're like, ma'am, let's, let's reel it back to understanding what we all aligned on at the beginning of things, the things are going to come up. So you also want to build in opportunities for contingencies and things of that sort to be considered as the project's morph and grow over time.

Acquania Escarne 29:25

Now, that makes sense. Go ahead. Okay, let's you got

Kala Garner 29:29

To speak to the people who are like, but how do I bring this up? That's my girl. That's my friend. I'm gonna bring this contract to her and make her sign it did. Denise and I have that challenge. Both of us are very like, this is business. This is personal. Like we're very clear on that. But if you don't have that type of personality, or understanding and maybe experience and you're like struggling with that, personally, I think to really again, get still with yourself and start reading and maybe looking at other examples of women in business, or just people in business, honestly, a book I highly highly recommend or a box, I should say is that we are wealthy box, because it has Rachael Rogers is a book, we should all be millionaires. And in that book, she dedicates an entire section to talking through what it has looked like for her to do a partnership and what she learned and all of those things, right.

Kala Garner 30:25

And so don't feel like you cannot bring those conversations up, because they're going to be so worth it right? When you gain clarity with your partner, again, saying this is what you're responsible for, this is what I am responsible for, should those things not happen? This is what we these are the next steps, right? Highly recommend getting a lawyer to kind of help you through that, you know, the both of you or however many partners you have, so that it's not just you coming straight to them, right saying, you know, if you're struggling with that, the lawyer can kind of be a mediator saying, here's the template, let's talk about it. Our lawyer is amazing, literally amazing. She anticipates everything. Again, they've seen this stuff, right? They see what happens when a partnership goes south. And now people are not friends anymore, or people have had, you know, lost 1000s of 1000s of dollars because they trusted X person without a contract. So they know how to protect you definitely use the resources that you have read research, don't jump into a business without doing what you need to do to do your due diligence. But yes, I think the knees what you mentioned is kind of like revolutionary, right? When it comes to friends and partnerships, to create a partnership before you even have an idea to say whatever we create is then going to be what you know what we ended up going forward with that that's usually not how it happens. It's like over a glass of wine. And we're like, oh, let's take out a sheet of paper and write no, let's talk about it. Let's get this contract and then get into the real meat and potatoes of the partnership. So yes, thank you for mentioning that Denise. I completely forgot about it.

Acquania Escarne 32:05

Very mature, very mature view. But I think you're right. And I think that's where we get screwed, right? Because some people skip that step. And then they say, well, it was my idea you stole it. Or I recently had a friend telling me like she was partnering with someone who took their business model and did it with someone else. And she felt betrayed. And I said, Well, what was your agreement? You know? Did you talk about it? Did you tell her that she could exclusively work with you on this? You know? And she's like, No, I didn't think I had to and I'm fine. Well, now, you know you did right. Or? And then do you have you know, so I posed this question to her. I was like, Do you think you have the right to be upset with her because you're a partner, without knowing she couldn't do that did it? Right. So she didn't do anything wrong, because you guys never talked about it. So I think that's, that's true. And I think in business, we can get emotional. But sometimes it's just business, right? Like, in that example that I just gave, the partner saw an opportunity to collaborate with someone else in a different place. It was like a different location, different state. But still, like she said, Hey, this is an effective business model, it clearly works. Because I'm doing it with you. Let me do it with this other person. And without a document that says you can't do it with someone else. She did. Right. So I can see both sides. So I think that's really helpful. I hope you guys take heed of these tips. Because if you are someone who's interested in working with a friend, you definitely need to iron out those details. I also tell people to iron out the What will you do if we disagree? Right? Because especially in a business where there are two people that's not odd, so there's no third vote. Right? So how do you guys resolve disagreements?

Kala Garner 33:59

That's a good question. You know, Denise, is I know what Denise is gonna say I know her so well. Um, I think there is a mutual respect, right, that we have for each other because it is literally the Foundation who who we are I mean, we pledged together, this fits this like it's there, right? It's rock solid. However, you know, years almost 20 Crazy sands crazy, almost 20 years later, there is just, there's, there's a line where we would never cross right? I think as people we wouldn't cross it just with anybody but also because we know each other, we know how each other ticks, etc. I am one of those people who's like, the ideas here and execution execution is the next thing. Like that whole middle part doesn't exist in my brain. And so, so many things that I come up with or have ideas or all see and be like, oh my god applying that to this, you know, our business could do this, this this this, and Denise is usually the one that's like let's take us step back. Right? Um, but I think there's ways that we do that with each other, right? Where I'm like, I don't know. But I think for us, it just ends up being a conversation. I'm so thankful for this part of the business, by the way of our partnership, because I know it's not always like that I have other partnerships, and they it was not like that. And so I think for me, and Denise, it becomes a conversation.

Kala Garner 35:24

And I think our heart posture is very clear on just because it's an I don't know, now doesn't mean that it's a no forever, right? At least from my side of it, right? Because I'm like, Okay, how can I get the nice to see, right, I can take a business case to her, I'll take and say, Hey, this is what we've done before, this has not worked, look at our numbers, doing this could guarantee this right, like, I will present that to Denise and in some instances to say, I think it's worth it to make this risk. I think it's worth it to do this. We just recently did this a couple of times this year. And some of those things are we're already seeing some movement from some of them. We're like, all right, like, let's see how this works out. But I think for us, I don't know that we ever have like Stark disagreements, because we're so open to a discussion, we see them as like, this is an opportunity to see here's our perspective, an opportunity for me to see, you know, to see each other's perspectives, and then move forward from there and not get all angry if we don't 100% agree because we're in a partnership. That's what this looks like. Right. So that's my take on it. There you go. I

Denise Gilmore 36:33

Think I'll just actually kind of do some highlights of what Kala shared basically, I think that, as I said, we started this from the beginning. And we we started we know what the intent what our intention is, and we'd never lose sight of that. Right. So I think that from the beginning, we both understand like, Denise has Kayla's best interest. And Kayla has Denise's best interest. And we're not going to present anything that we think is not aligned with where we're trying to take the business. Right. So like that is what we're always rooted in. I think the other piece of that is consistent touch points and openness for for conversation, right? We meet every we meet officially every week. But we basically live in each other's households virtually right because we understand that it is a ongoing conversation, so that there's not anything that like Denise is harbouring for six months, and then I gotta come to Kala, and try to dig out of you know, things that I've been trying to figure out that I feel for the last six months. So it's an ongoing conversation, one rooted in, we understand what we're trying to do, where we're trying to go, we have a similar purpose and goal. So I should I have the general I give Caleb the grace that like anything that she's bringing to the table is aligned with that I might not see it right now. She might not see something that I'm seeing that is aligned with that, right. But we have to give each other grace from the beginning to understand that like, hey, like she's trying to build the same thing that I am, we are aligned at the core of where we're trying to go. And then the other piece of that is ongoing conversation and just consistency in that and having an open door policy like truly within each other. Right. I think that third piece of that is it just escaped my mind. But the third piece that I was gonna say I can't remember right now.

Kala Garner 38:09

That was just really quick, while you think of it, the harbouring part that she's talking about, I think that happens a lot with especially women and women. Yes, we don't want to bring it up. And I'm not gonna lie, Denise and I have had to do things to get to the point that we're at right in that area, to say, Oh, wait, this is why this is happening. Because we don't have touch bases that are consistent. We're not being super open in our communication when we do meet. So how do we build you know, crawl out of that, that has been a years long process for us to get to that so if you're not there in a partnership Don't you know, get discouraged because we definitely have had to have conversations like real conversations to get to a point where we're saying okay, we still want to do this right? Go toe out the door. Each of us has been well Right. But what does it look like to then talk through it and then like she said, each time we've even had some of those moments, we go right back to that intention we're trying to build the same exact thing. Why would I leave right Why would I go in this partnership or in this because I know that this woman is doing is trying to do the same thing as me you go back to that core belief that core kind of the birth of what it is that you created and it for us it turns us in the right direction.

Acquania Escarne 39:27

Yeah. Okay, go girl.

Denise Gilmore 39:32

Actually in everybody's not going to have this right Kayla just mentioned, we have a 20 year friendship so we know each other we know each other personally as friends before we actually ventured into business together. And I think with that Kayla knows like okay, Denise is a data number a numbers person, I have to show her a certain thing to have her understand the story and I'm the same with Kayla, right? Kayla is a little bit more touchy feely a little more esoteric, like I can be like, Look, Sans, it's gonna be fun, whatever, like, you know what I mean? Like there are certain things that we know of how to actually communicate to the other person. And that makes us do art, right? I can see something from my own angle, but then I'm like, Oh, how would actually tailor you this. And that helps me come to the table a little bit more prepared of like, this is how it's a little bit more well rounded. I've thought about this a little bit more from a well rounded perspective, because I'm actually thinking about it from Denise's angle and Kayla's angle and the customer's angle and the market, you know what I mean? I'm not just thinking about it from my own perspective or per view, right? I always have to be considering somebody else is actually going to experience this or somebody else has a opinion on this. And I can't just get caught up in well, this is what I think this is how I you know what I mean? I think that that's where as solopreneurs, you do start to get into that, like, this is how I think about it. But you're not it, you're almost at a disadvantage and a handicap when you start when you only are thinking about it from your own perspective. And so I think having a partnership that I know that like, we have to be locked in step in terms of like how we're moving forward, it helps me just kind of, you know, look at things more holistically and look at things from different angles, because I know that I have to be looking at it from like, okay, let's gonna see it, how the customer is gonna see it, and how other people are gonna look at it.

Acquania Escarne 41:13

Yep, I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah, no, this was good. So we the name of the show was called the Purpose of Money. And I asked all of my guests this question. So you guys take turns, you decide who goes first, but what is your purpose for money?

Denise Gilmore 41:30

Go on Kala. deference. Um, honestly, my purpose for money is freedom, right? I just want to live and do and be in what I want to do. Right. So like, I think that I like to make money doing things that I enjoy, because I feel like the process of working is you're living your life, right? And so like, not for me, the purpose of money is literally how do I afford the life that I want? How do I maintain a certain lifestyle? How do I have the freedom to spend my time how I want to spend my time, things of that sort. And so I'm gonna do these different things, I'm going to be an entrepreneur, I'm gonna work in corporate America, I'm gonna, you know, own real estate and all the different things that I dip my toe into, are really to allow myself to free up my own time so that I can actually thoroughly enjoy life and do what I want to do. It's as simple as that for me.

Acquania Escarne 42:22

Okay. Okay, then

Kala Garner 42:24

Very similar, right? The Purpose of Money for me is to afford the life that I want to live for sure. And then what to part of just who I am, is to actually help others right, the infill and have that life as well. So giving others exposure to that, I mean, I'm a great gift giver, because I'm always thinking about, like, what is going to make this person lose their minds when they get this. And most of the time, I'm like, I don't care how much it cost, because I'm just like, I'm gonna figure out how to get this thing for this person. And so yeah, I love creating those experiences for people through the tool of money. And absolutely living the life that you know, I want to live one lesson in that though, I will say is you can be so busy trying to build and getting the money that you're not actually living for today. And so that's one lesson that I'm learning now. I literally just like moved out of a townhome and moved downtown, because I'm like, I need to start experiencing life day to day a little bit more. So now I'm closer to museums, I can go to school for interior design, right things that actually give me joy, instead of just staying up in my house, right? Working from home meetings from nine to nine. Right? Cool. You getting this money, your bank account is growing, but are you actually living life. And so the Purpose of Money for me is to be able to do things like that, because I did have this townhome, I can rent it out, come downtown, it pays for my rent, and now I can live the life while I'm actually still building as well.

Acquania Escarne 43:59

I love that. No, I totally agree. So I love your purposes for money. They are aligned with me and how I live my life. And I think many people will agree. Before we go Please let my listeners know how can they follow you? How can they get their subscription box going?

Denise Gilmore 44:19

And we are scaling keep looking at me like it's gone. So betternessbox.com is where you can find us. If you're looking to partner with us on the betterness box product. All of the information is there. There's a contact form and things of that sort at Veterans xbox.com. You can also find this at betterness bots on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, all of the social platforms, YouTube, things of that sort. We also do swift simply better co consulting, we do just some b2b activities and things of that sort. If you go to betterness vox.com and click on corporate. You can also get in touch with us for those types of activities as well. My name is Dora McPherson. That's Kala Garner's We also have our individual, you know, IG profiles and things of that sort. But betterness box.com, you can find us all the ways. All right?

Acquania Escarne 45:07

Well, guys, I'll make sure to include those links in the show notes. So you can click away, start to collaborate, get your stuff in the partnership, buy the boxes, I think that would be a great idea. Or make this something for your business, right? Because I think that would be really cool. If a corporation started to give their accompany betterness boxes, how about that? It definitely works, increases morale, my husband's job gives them goodies all the time, and some of them included subscription boxes. So I love it. And I think that's a great idea. If you're trying to create the best place to work, why not give your employees something to look forward to. So I love it. Thank you, Kayla. Thank you, Denise, for being on the show today. I was really excited to have this conversation. And I hope you guys listen. Because if you are about to do business with a bestie, you need to make sure you have all your stuff together. And there were some really good tips shared in this episode. Until next time, I want you guys to keep building generational wealth, and tune into the show, share it with those who would love it like it and don't forget to subscribe. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Acquania Escarne 46:15

Thank you for listening to the Purpose of Money podcast. For more resources and information, check out my website, thepurposeofmoney.com and while you're there, please sign up for our newsletter, so you'll have all the latest information on new episodes and blog posts. Until next time, keep building generational wealth.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai