Episode 8: Everything You Need to Know About Mortgage Moratoriums & COVID-19

Acquania Escarne 0:01

This is bonus episode 8-Everything You Need to Know about Mortgage Moratoriums and COVID-19.

You are listening to The Purpose of Money Podcast, a podcast where we talk about ways to build wealth and create more freedom in your life today. I am your host Acquania Escarne.

Hey guys, welcome to The Purpose of Money Podcast. I'm so excited to offer you this bonus episode. I have my girl Cindi Conley here today. We are going to talk about mortgages and how you may not necessarily want to skip out on your mortgage payments just because of COVID-19. We're going to get into the pros and cons and really help you make informed decisions about your finances. Cindi is a personal finance writer specializing in mortgages and real estate. She brings a voice of experience after being in the industry for over 30 years. She is also the traveler behind Traveling Later- a blog where she delivers solid travel tips for the undertraveled dreamer who is ready to start traveling. Feel free to check out her website CindiConleyWriter.com or TravelingLater.com. Hey Cindi, welcome to the podcast.

Cindi Conley 1:22

Happy to be here, Acquania, very happy to get this message out.

Acquania Escarne 1:26

So we kind of just started talking today, just for background. Cindi and I are in a mastermind group together. We connected via Fin Con, which is a conference I'm constantly talking about on the podcast, where money nerds meet. And after going to that arena where we connected, Cindi took the inspiration to create a website where she talks about traveling. But Cindi has a significant amount of experience from the mortgage industry and also writing about finances. So she's a perfect person to talk to us today about some of these benefits that are being advertised thanks to the government trying to give relief to anyone impacted by COVID-19. So Cindi, I want to ask you, you know, what do you recall from 2008? Because that's probably the closest we can get to a similar situation in the past, where the economy was just really not in a good place. And you had a lot of government programs and incentives to help those to give those relief to those most impacted by the financial crisis. And what happened in 2008 when it came to mortgages? Can you kind of refresh our minds for some of those who may not remember?

Cindi Conley 2:43

In a nutshell, it collapsed. And I think the biggest thing that happened is, it was the perfect storm of people who had taken advantage of the type of loan where you started out at a really low interest rate with interest only payments and when the actual full payment and interest rate came into play, no one could, could ever have afforded it. And I think a lot of people assume that once they got that, that they would refinance before they ever got themselves in that situation. But in the meantime, the entire Financial Armageddon hit in real estate values plummeted. So people had no ability to refinance to get out of those mortgages. They absolutely had no ability to make those payments. And so what you saw happen is the rescue effort, and it looked like a huge life raft, if you were a consumer, and the media, you know, was communicating things. And people, I'm telling you all this from the experience of being a lender on the lines as it happened, but also for the, for the intervening years, where the results of what these people had gone through, began to create an even bigger nightmare for them. So what people went through and I'm sure a lot of people remember is you couldn't make your payments or you knew that you were getting into a position where you couldn't make your payments, but you would still been making them. So you call to get help. And the first thing that someone told you is, "If you're still making your payments, you don't need help." So people said like, "Does that mean I need to stop making my payments?" "Absolutely. Stop making your payments, we can help you." And so people did in droves. And what happened? The final final thing that happened on the mortgage side, as the recovery began to wind out, people tried to buy new houses, they repaired their financial situation, they got jobs, they saved up money, they tried to buy a house, and they found out that the mortgage industry decided to create a criteria that if you would ever done that, you are never eligible to qualify for a loan again, so no mortgage, no refinance, no buying a house ever again.

Acquania Escarne 5:01

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Okay, Cindi, so just to recap what you said, back in 2008 people who needed help called in to get help and then we're told you don't need help because you're actually paying your mortgage. So what'd they do? They stopped paying their mortgage and then found themselves unable to refinance or get mortgage loans in the future. So it sounds like to me the mortgage industry was keeping tabs when they were supposed to be giving relief.

Cindi Conley 7:13

Right? I mean, they can they can always, even if they don't keep tabs, they can document it at any time in the future. So even if you say, "No, no, I didn't, I will, I never." I mean, the documentation is everywhere. So if you do that, if you did it at the time, they could absolutely find out. And they did. And you know, we had to gather documentation. And it was heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking to not have known that even as a loan officer, when it was all unfolding. And then to have to see these guidelines on the back end, tighten up and change over you know, the years that we were coming out of it and then people just saying, "But if I would have known I would have taken a different course of action. I would have, I was still in a bad situation, but I would have figured out a different option." And at the time getting help and relief from the lenders look like the least painful, damaging thing to do. But in, in reality, it turned out to be a really bad thing to do.

Acquania Escarne 8:10

So what do you think is going on now? Do you think this same policy is being applied? Or do you think it's a little different because of COVID-19?

Cindi Conley 8:21

Here's the thing, that whole karmic financial Armageddon, taught mortgage lenders a big lesson. They were definitely fumbling their way through at the time that they went through the whole financial collapse. Now, they already did that, and it wasn't that long ago. So you still have the same people. You have a lot of the same policies in place. And here's what they're doing. They're giving people 90 days. So three of the four big banks Chase, Citibank and Wells Fargo are giving a 90 day moratorium on people paying their mortgage payments. Bank of America has only come out with a 30 day moratorium. Each of the lenders have said they will not report the the payments weren't made to the credit reporting agencies. And I have been out of mortgage lending for two years. So I'll be honest with you when I heard that I'm like, "Wow, that that is so great and so much better than what happened back in 2008 to 2013, because they reported everything to the credit bureaus." And then I spoke with one of my close friends in the mortgage industry who's still in there. And he just laughed at me and he said, "Well, let me tell you about a couple of conversations that I had with underwriters. If they can't make those payments, they can't afford the loan. Regardless if they don't make the payments because it's a temporary situation with the virus and losing their job or being laid off. It doesn't matter. If they miss mortgage payments, they can't afford the loan." You can extrapolate from there and know what they're going to say about spotty jobs, job losses, even if it's a temporary layoff that are going to come out of this. So you know people right now are prioritizing the funds they have, what do we do with it and not making your mortgage payment knowing that it's not going to be reported the credit bureau seems like a really good option, and definitely the path of least resistance. But this time, I think it would be so great if everybody knew going into it. But if you do that stands to reason you're going to want a new mortgage loan at some point. And this is what's going to face you. So will they say if you took advantage of these moratorium on these payments, if you never get a loan again, I don't know. But I can tell you right now. No, absolutely look for 24 months out after this thing ends because that's sort of a standard window in underwriting anyway. As you know, you've always heard people say,"if you're going to miss a payment on something, don't let it be your mortgage loan" because that has the most damage. on your credit report, well, granted, this is not going to impact your credit report, they're still going to ask that question. And they're still going to hold it against you.

Acquania Escarne 11:08

People need to understand that it's not just about what's reported to the credit bureaus. It's also about how far back underwriters need to look as far as your payment history when they're determining if you are a risky person to lend money to. So what you're basically saying is if someone is going to refinance or buy another home in the next two to five years, they're going to potentially have to answer the question. Have you ever missed a payment on a mortgage loan? And if the answer is yes, they might jeopardize their ability to qualify for a future mortgage loan.

Cindi Conley 11:45

And not only that Acquania, lenders will get that information even if you don't answer that question truthfully. So their data collection capabilities is like any other, so I'm they'll get the information. They collect that information. It's available. And I think, you know, people who go through this, like everyone who went through the financial issues that had everybody in the early in 2008, 2012-13, you create a pattern in your credit. So the credit card companies haven't said that they're not going to report to the credit bureaus. Who knows what's going to happen as time goes on. But there will be a pattern of the financial stress you go through, that will be reflected in your data. So there's nothing that you can do about a lot of it, you've got to survive. I would prioritize food, and the care of my family. If it were me, and I was faced with those options, there's no-I don't care I'll just deal with the future later on. But if you have an option, you need to think this through and I will tell you that that is one of the saddest things I saw. After the mortgage collapse, and people began to come out of it, again, are the people who panicked and who just said, "Well, I'm not gonna keep making this mortgage, this house isn't worth that anymore," even if they could have afforded to keep making it. They just panicked and bailed. And so, you know, we've seen that everything recovered and went above where it had been before everything started to collapse. That's going to happen again, please don't panic. And just now you know.

Acquania Escarne 13:29

Excellent, excellent point. I have a nother episode I recorded a few weeks ago about how to protect your health and your wealth from the impact of COVID-19. And that's some of my advice too. I tell people don't panic, don't sell when it comes to your investments, especially retirement investments. If you're still making your regular income, and your only adjustment has been now you're working from home instead of working in an office, don't adjust what you're saving for retirement. Don't sell off things just because you see that the stock market is down right now, because you're gonna lock in your losses. And that's the last thing you want to do in a situation where we know everything's going to rebound. At some point, the real estate market is cyclical, the stock market is cyclical, these things are going to eventually go back up. And they're going to exceed where they were before. And anyone who stays in is going to enjoy those benefits. And anyone who jumps out or who sells is going to forever have that lost opportunity. So I'm so glad you mentioned that because it applies to the real estate values as well and being able to pay your mortgage and paying it because you are able to is a very important financial habit. And just because the press and the media are encouraging you to not make payments or to delay or defer your payments doesn't mean you should.

Cindi Conley 14:56

Right. Well if you've never seen underwriting guidelines, you're forgiven for not knowing that the other shoe is gonna drop. So people in the press, they have no idea because they don't know what underwriting guidelines look like. As for me, I'm not even looking at my 401k or my investment statements. I'm not gonna open them, delete, delete, I just don't even, I don't want to know. There's nothing that you can control about that situation. And no one is smart enough right now to ride ahead of this wave, unless you happen to have a pot full of cash. And you just got to start buying in at the bottom hits in the market. But when is that? Because if you think you've hit the bottom, you missed it. That's pretty much the old adage on that. So just, you know.

Acquania Escarne 15:47

I love that. Yeah, it's true. And I try to tell people all the time they you can't time to market and anyone who's been on CNN and Money Watch and been able to tell you what's about to happen, they may get it right when once or twice. But has anyone consistently gotten those predictions Right, year after year after year? No.

Cindi Conley 16:06

No.

Acquania Escarne 16:07

So to actually think that, you know, what's going to happen is a little bit crazy. Some people still say it anyway. But you can't time the market. So I've always told people, the best time to get into the market is when you have money. This is a great time to get into the market when it's low, and the cost of getting in is low. But if you are facing financial challenges, don't risk your money in the market. Like you said, you should prioritize shelter, food, medicine, caring for your family should come first. But we just kind of want to let you know that these things are out there because the programs are incentives that seemed really sexy to people who are looking at, "oh, what if I could hold on to this mortgage payment for a couple of months and put it somewhere else i.e. in the market?" I've had some people approached me about that too, like "Should I not pay this bill so that I can buy stock?" And my answer to that is no.

Cindi Conley 17:06

Yeah, that's exactly right.

Acquania Escarne 17:07

If you have a genuine bill that's due, don't not pay it because you're trying to take advantage of another opportunity out there. So Cindi, what other advice you have for people? With your years of experience, I know you've seen tons of things out there and when it comes to building credit and rebuilding credit, how can you show the mortgage industry that you are worth lending to? What are some of the things people have been able to overcome?

Cindi Conley 17:36

I mean, I think the most encouraging sign to an underwriter is that someone had a very limited time where they had a an event that is documentable, ie the Coronavirus, or the financial falling apart of everything back in 2008. That is exactly when they had potentially derogatory information, which derogatory just means you didn't make your payments as agreed on time. So if you have, before that time period, then an A student so to speak, and once it was over, you were an A student, you've saved money since then, those are the best things. And really the only way that you warm up the heart of an underwriter in the mortgage world that's going to be looking at your file later on. So everybody is going through this, everybody is going to have some kind of an impact. And everybody is going to get back to work and be serious about getting back to putting their financial house in order as soon as they can. And that is what you want to show. And if it means they're going to need to see that 12 months, 24 months, 36 months, we don't know yet. It will clearly be 24 months, maybe it's longer than that. And if you're gonna come out of this with a new job, because your old job evaporated, who knows that's like futuristic thinking at this point, we don't know what's going to happen. But there's, you know, pretty reasonable to think that that's going to happen to a certain segment of the population in the United States. And so, you know, you're gonna have to prove that you've been in a new industry, not a new job doing the same thing. But if you end up having to move to a new industry, you have to prove that you have earned money in that industry, for between, I mean, 18 to 24 months. So if you are on a salary, you might find that you can get something 12 months after you've gotten into that industry. But I think the most important thing to know is this part of life, if you have any scars that you incur, because of this on your mortgage, your job, your credit in any way, like everybody else, there's going to be a recovery period and saying it's not fair just doesn't really make any difference.

Acquania Escarne 20:00

Hmm. But I like what you're saying about everyone's going through it. So we can look at it as a collective episode. And not just an isolated situation which might be beneficial to some people who are going to need that time to find a new job, new industry, and reestablished, like you said their financial house. So, there is hope. But what are some things that you think are really benefits? If anything, I mean, you've been following CARES and all the incentives, they're giving small businesses and then people for mortgages, and then also student loans. You know, one of the things I've been telling clients is if you need the student loan break, by all means, take it. But if again, you're still making your income and able to make your payments, then you should make your payments and maybe take advantage of the zero percent interest that the President recently announced.

Cindi Conley 20:52

Well my opinion on that is that if you ever think you're going to be in the market, to want a mortgage ever in your life, either because you're buying real property and investment property, or for your own home, take as limited advantage of these kinds of things other than the business loans that the SBA is offering to keep your company and your employees going. But on a personal level, take as little advantage as you possibly can. You may think to yourself, "I'm never going to need a student loan again," and you probably won't, but you know what, that data is going to be available to your mortgage lender, and it's going to it's going to make a huge impact. It's like those crime shows on TV, how they, you know, build the profile of the criminal. I mean, that's what underwriters do. And, you know, it's, it's once they've decided that you fit this profile, it's a lot of blue face loan officers that cannot talk them down off the ledge. I mean, no, this is a dead file. This person is a mortgage criminal. I mean, literally, that's what they get themselves into a corner where they feel that way. So the net of it is not to be too dramatic through too many crying borrowers mad, angry, frustrated people with a big wall between them and the underwriter who's made this decision. I mean, try to take advantage of as little of it as you need.

Acquania Escarne 21:41

And so give us a little bit of insight into what is the consequence? I mean, is it you're automatically not qualified? Or could you potentially..

Cindi Conley 22:22

Yes

Acquania Escarne 22:22

Oh, wow. So that's the worst case scenario, you're automatically not qualified. But an underwriter? Do they have any discretion about offering you a higher interest rate in lieu of not offering you the loan at all?

Cindi Conley 22:34

Well, I mean, a higher interest rate is even more difficult to pay. So if they don't think you can make the payment at a market rate, why would they think that you can make a higher payment? And here's a really good real world example. Right now there is unfortunately coinciding with this whole virus, there is a refinance boom because mortgage rates are...can't even think how many times we've said this over the last 12 years, but we never thought they would be this low. And they just keep going lower, right? So here we are, we were in the middle of it, and so many people were taking advantage of it. And a lot of people have large investment portfolios. And one of the ways that they qualify as income to make the payments, maybe they don't actually have a job that makes enough salary to qualify the for the payments, but they do have a large investment portfolio. And so lenders will give you credit for a certain amount of monthly income from whatever your portfolio is. Don't get excited, you got to have a lot of money to do it. And so what's happening right now is for an example, the mortgage loan officer that I spoke with, said "I have a borrower. He already has a loan with our bank. We are in the middle of refinancing him to lower his interest rate and his payment by a quarter of a percent." And it's a large loan. So that's a lot of money monthly. So the same bank would have even more assurance that this gentleman could make his payment, because now his payment is even less. And he's got a perfect record of making the payments that he's had. But his investment portfolio dramatically dropped in value. And so they said, "We're not going to give him this loan. He can't, you can't make these payments." And the guy said, "But wait a minute, you already are expect expecting him to make the payments that he has. Wouldn't it be beneficial and make common sense for you to lower the payment even, especially now that you see that his investment portfolio is down?" Nope. declined. End of discussion.

Acquania Escarne 22:43

Wow. And that's true, like common sense would say, a lower payment he could definitely make because it's going to be lower than what he pays right now. Yeah, but he won't qualify because his investment portfolio has taken a hit.

Cindi Conley 24:56

On one end of the football field is common sense and on the other into the football field is underwriting guidelines.

Acquania Escarne 25:04

Which is really based on your payment history, your perception, perception, the income, the investment

Cindi Conley 25:11

Your job, etc.

Acquania Escarne 25:13

Your job. Absolutely. And so you know, this brings up a good point that you and I talked about before just diving into Is itt even worth paying off your mortgage ever?

Cindi Conley 25:23

You know I thought about that so much over this last couple of weeks.

Acquania Escarne 25:29

So Cindi and I have very interesting perspectives. I know there are people out there who will tell you aggressively pay off your mortgage. It does help you get closer to being financially independent and retiring early because for most people, a mortgage is your most expensive expense per month. However, I've said in the past, if this is not your forever home, why would you rush paying it off? And so let's talk a little bit about a mortgage fund, which is one of my solutions to having the money available to pay off your house, but not necessarily putting it into your house. So, Cindi, what do you think about that? Do you think it's worth having enough money to pay off your mortgage whenever you feel like it, but maybe keeping it?

Cindi Conley 26:20

I mean, I don't necessarily, I don't have an opinion about whether you should have that money to pay your mortgage off or not. I have a very strong opinion that you should never put that extra money if you decide to accumulate it into the real estate. And for a couple of reasons. One is because I did live through that mortgage meltdown and from the front lines dealt with many clients who had put so much, if not all, of their excess money, cash, equity, into paying down that mortgage as quickly as they could and now that value was gone, and they had no real outside savings to show to a lender. "Yes, but I mean, I put it all in there." But it doesn't matter. You don't have any cash reserves, which is a critical piece of the underwriting equation, so you don't qualify. And that was money that did not come from the market appreciating and their property value increasing through no work on their part. It was real money that they worked, saved, inherited, however, they got it, and it was gone. And yes, it came back eventually. But the point that I would make to people is if you ever wanted to access that money, you have to qualify to get it and there's a lot of reasons why you might not qualify, that are outside of your control Exhibit A. And number two, you gotta pay money to get that money because those fees are the same every time you get a mortgage.

Acquania Escarne 27:53

So I hope you're listening guys cuz she's really dropping some gems here. Basically what Cindi is saying is In order to access the extra cash that you put into your house, you either need to refinance it or you need to sell it. But a lot of times when you need access to that money, you are not in a position to financially qualify for the refi. If I recall correctly, aren't the requirements or the criteria to be able to refinance your home stricter than when you are a first time homebuyer?

Cindi Conley 28:24

Everything is looked at with a little bit more of a jaundiced eye from the underwriters when you're refinancing. But it's not a huge difference. But there is a difference. I mean, there's psychologically a difference. So yeah, because you've had that mortgage, you've got evidence that you've made the payments, etc. And if you've continued to save while you've made the payments, that's also a good that's a gold star next to your name. What's not a gold star next to your name, is that you accelerated paying off that mortgage. They're like, "Okay, so that, you know, yes, that's your money that you have the ability to do whatever you wanted." But if they want to see that you have money in case, the worst case scenario happens. Again, here we are. And you can use it to make your mortgage payment, which is ultimately, from the perspective of making an underwriting decision to give you a new loan, they want to know that you could pay them if everything else falls apart. That's what they really want to know. That's what makes the decision to make that loan in the first place.

Acquania Escarne 29:29

Exactly. So just imagine you need access to all this extra cash you put in your house because before you were overflowing with cash and putting it into your home to pay it off faster, and now you actually need access to cash to survive. Maybe you lost your job thanks to COVID-19. You don't qualify in order to access that cash because now the bank is gonna say, "Oh no, wait a minute. You are actually not in a good financial situation or maybe you're in a not as stable financial situation. So we don't want to give you a new loan, even if it'll lower your payment because you don't have income right now, or you don't have the same job right now, or you may not be able to make future payments. So we're just going to keep you in the loan you have." I can't believe how crazy that sounds, but that is the reality for a lot of people. So one of my solutions, and I do have an opinion about where you should put the money, is if you're not sure, save the money in a high interest earning savings account where you're putting those extra payments there. And maybe once a year, you make an extra payment or you put an extra couple of thousand dollars on your house, but you just don't pay it off in full. At some point, you'll have access to the cash and you can decide if you want to pay off your home, if you want to use that money for a business venture, or put it into the market or just have it for an emergency. No matter what situation you're in. You need savings if something happens and that's it. Before any extra payments to anyone else, anything

Cindi Conley 31:03

To anything. And, really, I mean, what's the benefit of making extra payments on your mortgage? If, it ultimately pays off your loan more quickly. But again, go back to the beginning of what we were just talking about. Secondly, you can possibly write off a little bit more mortgage interest in that year. So, you know, those are the two little benefits, but the risk is huge. And I used to preach so much to borrowers who wanted to get a 15 year mortgage who's in for a 10 year mortgage in their whole focus was gonna pay that mortgage off. And, you know, having to say to them, you know, something could happen and getting that look of "nothing's gonna happen. That's the most ridiculous thing. What are you my mother?" But, hello, stuff has happened and it keeps happening. So here's what I say. And this is from an investment perspective. A piece of property if it is an asset, it's an asset class. So real estate is an asset class. Just like stocks are an asset class, okay? But when you buy that real estate for an investment, if that asset goes up, it's because the market that that piece of real estate in means makes it more valuable. It's now a more valuable piece of real estate. It doesn't have anything to do with how much equity you have in that property. That absolutely is completely separate from the value of that asset. So if you took that money, and you did what you said, Acquania, and put it in a high interest bearing account or into some kind of more complex investment, it's going to also appreciat. So that cash can now become more valuable as your real estate also becomes more valuable. So if you put that cash, just into your property, you only have one asset that's gaining in value. That piece of real estate. You don't have that money growing anywhere else. It's not growing the value of that home. It's not doing anything to it. So you know, and it's just it's not it just doesn't even make sense to do it like that.

Acquania Escarne 33:17

I like that advice, Cindi, assets over liabilities.

Cindi Conley 33:20

Yeah.

So why not create two assets for yourself instead of sticking to one? That's great advice.

Yeah it is.

Acquania Escarne 33:26

And it makes sense. Everyone's situation is different. But this is our opinion.

Cindi Conley 33:32

I mean, I'm not saying and I don't think you're saying because we've had these conversations in the past, we're not saying don't pay off your mortgage. We're not saying you need a mortgage. What we're saying is the mindful of the risk you're taking. Keep that cash working outside of that real estate until you have enough that you could pay off or pay down your mortgage significantly. So that you also then have cash reserves still left on the outside. You're gonna get to that point quicker, I believe in a good market more quickly than you will by just paying your mortgage on paying your mortgage down paying the mortgage down.

Acquania Escarne 34:14

Absolutely. Money makes money. Yeah. So why not make it work for you? That's what you're saying.

Cindi Conley 34:20

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying I saw so many sad people after the mortgage meltdown, who didn't do this, who just put their money into their property and it went away. And they lost their house. They didn't. They weren't in a position to stick around forever and wait for the market to come back. They lost that house. So that was a permanent double whammy. All the money there and the property that they had bought- this heartbreaking stories. So yeah, I mean, it should have gotten on this horse and really wrote it long before now.

Acquania Escarne 34:52

Absolutely. I have a client now who reminds me on a regular basis that he is so glad I told him to save his money because believe it or not last year, we were dealing with the government shut down from about January to March. And you had a lot of government employees who maybe missed one to two paychecks before the government passed the law to allow back pay. So you had people who couldn't make their bills, couldn't get their medication because they didn't have ample savings for an emergency. So that missed paycheck really devastated them. And you have a lot of contractors who never made up for what they lost because some contractors were not made whole. So in a situation like this, unfortunately, it's a year later and now we have COVID-19, where people are staying at home, they're not spending money on the economy. They're losing their jobs because restaurants and shopping facilities are closing gyms and everything is shut down. And you find yourself in another difficult situation. And once again, we're reminded that people are not saving enough so they're literally not able to make it through these couple of weeks, that might turn into a couple of months of economic downturn. So I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer. I'm just reiterating that it's really important to have an emergency fund. And for me, my recommendation is, if you don't have $500 saved, start saving it now but your goal should be your first thousand. If you already do have savings, push yourself to get three to six months of your monthly expenses saved. So you can go three to six months without an income and still make it. If you get bonuses, birthday money, if you have side hustles, use that income to really boost your emergency fund savings so that you're able to get there faster because we just don't know what's going to happen. And we're constantly reminded that life happens. And people who are not savers are the ones who are impacted the most.

Cindi Conley 36:52

Right? I agree. I mean, when you hear that cliche, what's the worst thing that can happen? Now you know. We've been seeing that for a while now.

Acquania Escarne 37:01

Yeah.

Cindi Conley 37:02

2008. So...

Acquania Escarne 37:03

But we're gonna make it!

Cindi Conley 37:05

We are going to make it. But being forewarned is forearmed. I mean, you deserve all the information to make the best decision. I know that I do. I mean, I don't want to make a decision and then later realize that you can never get out of this hole because of advice that you took. And it's not that people are giving bad advice. But that's all they know. They don't know the inside of the mortgage industry. So now you have the inside of the mortgage industry, and they're not out to get people. It's just the way it works. They have to make really good lending decisions. And that is what came out of the mortgage meltdown.Really, really, really good lending decisions. So...

Acquania Escarne 37:45

That's great advice. And that's not advice we get to hear often. So I'm so thankful you took time to be on the podcast. Cindi, I want people to hear more from you because outside of the mortgage industry experience you have, you are an amazing traveler who aspires to see more of the world. And you are willing to do it now more than ever, but not right now, right now. We are all staying at home. So please let my listeners know how can they find you on social media and what type of content can they expect on TravelingLater.com?

Cindi Conley 38:20

My whole goal on traveling later is to talk to people like me, the under traveled. And there's a lot of anxiety that goes into traveling when you have not traveled a lot. So I want to find out all that information from what's the best way to pack? Has, how do you find great fares? Anything! What do you do when you get there? etc, That I want to know to reduce my own travel anxiety and I've met so many people that are in my same position. And that's what my blog is. That's the mission of my blog. So you can find me on Instagram @travelinglater. You can find me on Pinterest @TravelingLater. You can find me on Twitter @Cindithewriter-two i's. And I you know, I'm as you know, I had my own little Corona situation, just as everything was unfolding. I had some surgery on one of my hips and then I fell and broke my arm. So I'm not active with one hand on my blog, but I'm find out that I'm getting my cast off in a couple of weeks I will be back on because now my head is exploding with things that I know I want to write. Nothing like being stuck in suspended animation as a writer. So come by and visit me.

Acquania Escarne 39:48

Yes, absolutely. So guys, I'll put all that information in the show notes so you'll know how to get to Cindi's website. You'll check out the places that she's been and the tips that she has to give. She is a packer, so some of you may be light travelers. Some of you may be suitcase travelers. Cindi is a suitcase traveler, and she's proud of it. And she has an awesome packing list that has really helped me with a couple of my trips. And while you're perusing her site, I'll make sure to also share a link to my trip to Panama with my dad, Traveling with Dad, for his 65th. We did that last year in Panama before any of this happened. And it's one of the best trips I've ever had with my parents or my dad and family. And I shared that as a guest post on Cindi's blog. So I'm going to share that with you too. Make sure to share this episode with friends and family. It's great tips. And I know a lot of people who have mortgages, so do not keep this information to yourself. This is advice that we want others to know so they can make the best decisions. So sharing is caring. Make sure to pass it on. And while you're listening, leave a review. Thank you!

Thank you for listening to The Purpose of Money podcast. For more resources and information, check out my website ThePurposeofMoney.com. And while you're there, please sign up for our newsletter so you have the latest information on new episodes and blog posts. Until next time, keep building generational wealth $1 at a time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai