Episode 82: Why Trademarking Is Important with Radiance Harris

Acquania Escarne 0:03

You are listening to the purpose of money podcast, a podcast where we talk about ways to build wealth and create more freedom in your life today. I am your host Acquania Escarne

Hey guys, welcome back to the purpose of money podcast today I'm super excited. We are talking to trademark attorney Radiance Harris, we're gonna talk about why trademarking for your business is so important and what you may be putting at risk if you don't trademark right away.

Radiance Harris Esquire is an award winning trademark attorney, best selling author and speaker as the founder and managing attorney of radiants IP law. She helps emerging businesses protects, monetize and grow profitable brands with trademarks. She has successfully represented startups and multinational corporations across diverse industries. Previously, she worked at one of the world's largest law firms representing fortune 200 brands. During her extensive career Radiance has been widely recognized as a thought leader in the intellectual property law field. Her accolades include Maryland rising stars for intellectual property by Super Lawyers, Washington, DC rising stars for intellectual property by Super Lawyers, and nation's best advocates 40 lawyers under 40, to name a few. She has also been featured as a legal expert in a variety of publications, including Forbes and the New York Times. Hey, radiants Welcome to the show. I'm so glad to have you.

Radiance Harris 1:44

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Acquania Escarne 1:48

Yeah, this is super exciting. And you know why this is super exciting guys. I'm gonna be transparent and honest with you. Radius is my trademark attorney. The purpose of money and building generational wealth $1 at a time was recently registered as of August 2022, this was a journey that I went through, but she held my hand the entire time, and I just couldn't keep her to myself anymore. I felt like trademarking now that I've done it and I can speak to it is something that I needed to tell you guys about too, because as a woman, entrepreneur and a business owner, it is super important to protect my business. But before we get into what is trademarking and why it matters, because I know you guys are curious, I want to learn a bit more about you and your background where you're from. So my first question, since this is a money podcast, is what was money like for you when you were growing up?

Radiance Harris 2:49

Um, so I would say that I definitely grew up in with a family that was, I guess you could say budget conscious. I do. Remember, my mom would always buy stuff on sale, and we would always be at the clearance fry. But what I did learn about early on is like how to really stretch $1, so to speak. And so I would say, you know, my upbringing was pretty middle class. But I really felt that my parents provided us with a life that was way more significant than their income, because they knew how to stretch $1, especially my mom, and she's still that way today. And so that's what I would say that I learned early on about, I guess, being more conscious of budgeting and focusing on sales and stuff, which I don't necessarily follow now in my adulthood. Like, I don't necessarily go for it, I go for what I want and what's convenient. I don't necessarily focus on the sale, but that would be my my first memory of money.

Acquania Escarne 3:52

I love that. And you know what, that's okay, you can build your own relationship with money. It does not have to be tied to our parents and what they did. And honestly, that was a good example. So I'm glad you had a positive example of one way to apply money and to budget money. But there are other habits our parents do that we don't want to bring into our adulthood. And we do so you are an example of you are living the life you want to live, which is always important. But you did have a good example as a child. So that's awesome.

So I want to ask you this question because to be honest, before I decided to become a diplomat, I actually thought I was going to be an attorney. Like, I'm not kidding. Seventh grade, I went to Spain, I traveled and I said, Oh my god, I love traveling. I want to travel the world. And my mom worked with a lot of attorneys. She was a consultant and an entrepreneur all her life, but she would do like some marketing and stuff for them and accounting. And the attorneys in her world were like, Oh, you can be an international attorney. And from seventh grade, that's all I thought about like to the point where When I was in high school and they said, you know, it's time to apply for colleges, I applied to schools with international affairs, degrees, but also political science. So I majored in political science and international affairs. But I came to DC and I knew the law firm I was going to work for. I knew like, I was going to be an intern there, then I was going to practice. But that was my life, right? Until I realized I could become a diplomat and not have to go to three years of law school, and that was like, that's gonna be my life.

Radiance Harris 5:31

No, that's right.

Acquania Escarne 5:33

So I'm always curious to know, like, Did you always think you were going to be an attorney? And then you just did it? Or was this something that came to you later in life?

Radiance Harris 5:43

I have a similar story to you. When I was 15. I made up my mind that I was going to be an attorney. That was around the time where I had met. First attorney in my life, like I had never met like an attorney until that age, and I primarily so one of my AAU basketball, I was really big into playing basketball growing up. So one of my AAU Basketball teammates, her father was like this big time lawyer, you know, big time lawyer. And I thought, you know, he looked really cool. He always had really exciting things to say he was always really generous. Most importantly, he always had money, like, I was like, I want I want to do that. Like, I didn't really know what kind of law he did. I just knew he was an attorney. And it looked well put together and he was making money and happy and you know, purposeful. And so I was like, I want to be an attorney. And so at that age at 15, like basically everything that I did from the college that I went to, the majors that I chose, everything was to prepare me for law school. And I knew and then I would say that in college, I went to a summer law school program. And at that time, I discovered that I wanted to work at a big law firm. And so that was junior year of college. And I was like, Okay, well, I'm in law school, and then I'm working for a big law firm. And I did exactly that.

Acquania Escarne 7:01

Okay, so in that transition to the big firm, because I know a lot of people will do it, in some cases to pay off the big debt, right? Like law school is not cheap, but And very few people get scholarships to cover it. So what's your move? I know, you decided a big firm before you actually had the debt. But what else was your motivation for going to a big law firm?

Radiance Harris 7:26

Um, I guess for me, it was more of the prestige. So when I was introduced to what a big firm was, like, we had taken a tour of the building and just kind of like the feel of like, luxury and accomplishment and proceeds like to my young, Junior, you know, I was a junior in college. So like, to my mind, I was like, This is no noise, you know, kind of thing you're looking around like, and so that was basically the motivation. It was like, I didn't know exactly like, I thought, I was like, Oh, I'll be an entertainment. We're not really knowing what that was. It just you just like black woman just said that. Like they just said they want to be entertainment wares. And so that's what I thought I wanted to be or whatever. But just having that experience, just expose me to a whole different world where people are living differently. And people are having money. And so when I left law school to go to big law, I mean, I would say money was not the main driving force, but I think it didn't hurt like it didn't hurt. I did have law school debt. So I was very strategic about you know, where I went to law school, like I went to an in state school. So my dad wasn't that significant. And I also like, during law school lived very frugally, like I was like, I had like four roommates and like, I cook my food, I minimize how much I ate out like I was very frugal. So I remember the first year of law school, and orientation. They said, if you live like You're like ballin and lost, we're gonna be poor after law school. And so I kind of took that to heart. I got to my poor sub now, before once I leave here, so

Acquania Escarne 8:59

I've never heard that before. So that's a good inside tip. So for those out there interested in law school, Don't live your best life while you're still student status. So you can live your best life when you get out. But that that's powerful. I mean, for you to be that strategic. And I'm sure being at a large law firm, you got exposed to a lot of experience and opportunity. So what propelled you to go from legal large firm to I want to have my firm or my own, like what happened.

Radiance Harris 9:31

I mean, to be honest, it wasn't in the plan. I always envisioned myself being like a partner at a large law firm with that's really what I focused on. But I would say after a few years of what they call the burnin churn where you're really, you know, the billable hours and you're working, you know, working a lot and you're at the mercy of like these partners telling you what to do. And you're just helping these bigger corporations get richer and richer. I was, you know, becoming unfulfilled. So I love trademarks. I love that Big law really established my expertise in trademarks. And I'd be exposed to like a wide range of different companies. But in terms of the long term, I knew that it was not a sustainable thing for me.

And then on top of just being a black woman in the legal profession, too, you've got those extra challenges as well. So when I launched right into IP law nearly seven years ago, I, it wasn't in the plan, it was more of like, I know, I don't want to do this. Alright, what do I do now? So like, actually, when I, when I left, I didn't really have a plan, I left thinking I was done with the law. So when I was like, I'm done with the law, what do I do now.

So I took it, there was like three months off, it was dilly dally, and going to networking events, I think I went to like South Africa for like 10 days, and just to just figure things out. And what I discovered during that time was that I thought, so I wasn't tired of the law. I very much enjoyed trademark law. But I was tired of people telling them what to do as to, I was tired of people determining what my worth was, I was tired of telling me people telling me how to act in the workplace and how to dress in the workplace. So like that whole environment I was tired of. So I was like, let me just start my own thing. And so I did. And so, you know, I mentioned from the beginning has been to just really help, particularly women owned businesses protect their trademarks, because I was finding that they were lacking the education in doing those things that would be very important to allow for their future growth.

Acquania Escarne 11:32

I love that. And I, I kind of wanted to get on this in later, but I'll talk about it now. So you took a three month break to really assess? Do I like this? Do I want to keep doing this? And what do I do next? But I've also noticed, because I followed you on Instagram, that last summer, you actually took time off to be present and enjoy another country in the summer while you had time off with your son? Does Do you feel like creating your own law firm also helps you create that schedule to take those breaks or to work wherever you want?

Radiance Harris 12:08

Yeah, absolutely. I would say like the best thing of entrepreneurship and like, being your own boss is definitely that time freedom. Like, you know, yeah, we talked about money freedom, which is amazing. But like that time freedom is like, is on par with that, because it's like to be able to dictate what your schedule is, when you work, how you work where you work. Like I think that's priceless. And then that's one of the like, really driving things that really keeps me pushing during those rough times. You know, having your own business businesses can have some rough periods. But just knowing that I have that flexibility and time freedom to do that. Is everything.

Acquania Escarne 12:45

It's on my goal list. I already told you and you and you did give some really good tips on how to incorporate maybe a few weeks, I don't know about three months or you know, away, but I definitely think a month every summer would be nice in a tropical place. Because I love warm weather and tropical places.

All right, so we got a little bit of tea. I love it about you and who you are. But now let's get into the nitty gritty of why we're here. trademarking, I always thought was essential because it sort of sets this procedure about your business, it shows that you've taken the time and effort to protect something so valuable, ie your name, or tagline or whatever you want to trademark. But I'd like to, for the listeners who don't even understand what that is, I'd love for you to define what does it mean to trademark something? And why should we be doing it as business owners?

Radiance Harris 13:43

That is a great question. So I mean, essentially, what a trade. So what is a trademark is I think it's really important question for me to ask the answer, because a lot of people don't know what it is. But basically, a trademark can be a word or a phrase, assemble a combination of those things that distinguishes your products and services from those of a competitor. So it's essentially a source identifier, that when people see your products or services in the marketplace, they see that name, they see that logo, they automatically associate it with you and your business and not your competitors. So that's what a trademark is.

And so when you go and secure US federal trademark protection, so this is like going through the process with the US Patent and Trademark Office, you are establishing legal rights and ownership in the name that you're using for your business for your products or services for your annual event for your podcast, or your blog, whatever the name is, you're establishing legal rights and ownership across all 50 states. And so that's essentially what a trademark does. So getting a bunch of domain names and going and filing your business entity with the state and securing the social media handles does not establish any legal ownership in your business name or anything, you know, it's kind of just a formality. But if you're really looking to like be legit and be official until like legally own, the brand that you're putting out there, a US federal trademark registration is definitely what you need

Acquania Escarne 15:19

the way to go right now. So don't judge me. But some of my listeners out there, you know, they're starting out their business and you know, the money's funny right now. And they're trying to what we call bootstrap everything. Yeah, so is trademarking a process that you think individuals can do without the assistance of an attorney.

Radiance Harris 15:42

So I will say that people individuals can DIY the trademark process just as they would DIY their websites, or DIY a bunch of other things, their bookkeeping. However, I mean, so meaning Legally speaking, you can do it like you anyone can do it. As long as you're a US resident, you can file your handle the whole trademark process, there are people who have done the process by themselves without attorney guidance, who probably, you know, have succeeded in it. What I will say, however, is that there is immense benefit to using a trademark attorney, because of the fact that there are nuances in the trademark process that most people just aren't aware of, or whatnot. And so, and then secondly, there are also I would say significant risks to if you are doing it wrong. So unlike like DIY on your website, or doing these other things that don't have like serious legal implications, there are seriously legal implications that are involved with that. So it's like you as a business owner will have to determine, you know, why, you know, is it worth the risk from my business? Can I figure this out? Do I have the time to figure this out? Because it is a 14 month process and minimum, at least right now. And so, and I even know, what's your trademark, it took us nearly two years. And so do you have two years when you're starting your business to really dedicate and learn trademark law? Probably not.

But I guess you could say like, that was one of my motivations for writing my book trademark, like a boss and, and I also do a trademark LIKE A BOSS workshop where I walk people step by step to the US federal trademark registration process, because the reality is, no matter what, you know, what I say in terms of there being immense benefits to hiring an attorney like myself, people are gonna still DIY, and so they're gonna do it, I at least would like to give them a guide or resource that they can use so that they're not completely blind. Going into the process. Of course, it doesn't guarantee their success, you know, 70% of trademark applications do get an initial refusal, but it's at least helpful to give people the resource to do what they're going to do anyways.

Acquania Escarne 18:02

70% get an initial refusal. Yeah. Wow, I didn't know that. I was like, 70% get approved. You were like, no, they don't. You have to refuse and you have to navigate navigate that. Yeah. Okay, and probably, like present your case in a different way. Okay, so my next question for you, because I'm sure people are wondering, what is the difference between trademarking something, and copywriting something.

Radiance Harris 18:30

So they're both forms of intellectual property. So they're under the umbrella of intellectual property. The difference is that copyrights protects your content. So the content that you're creating, whether it's you know, social media posts, photographs, videos, books, PowerPoint presentations, training materials, all of that would be subject to copyright protection, whereas trademarks focus on protecting your brand. So that's the primary difference between the two.

Acquania Escarne 19:01

Okay, very good. So let's give some tangible examples. So the purpose of money is trademark, that's my brand where I talk about personal finance, building wealth, strategies and other tips to really help women boost their income and their wealth. But if I write a financial workbook that you can do DIY your own financial analysis, you know where your money stands, that workbook could be copyright protected, but the purpose of money who produced it has that protection of the brand like if somebody tried to take my workbook and slap their name on it, or even my name on it, like, let's say, because nowadays I've noticed on Instagram, the scammers are taking your picture your posts, and they're still tagging you, which is crazy, but they're but they're literally like scamming people to come to their page. This is literally happened this week with a couple of my clients. So if Someone took my book and decided to go to Kinko's and make copies of it. Right? I can sue them because they've infringed upon my copyright and my trademark protection because they took my actual trademark cop put it on Kinkos and said it was mine. And they replicated my written work. Right?

Radiance Harris 20:20

Well, the caveat is if you have for trademark protection for books, so like, for trademarks, for books, it has to be a series. So assuming you have the purpose of money book series, yes, you know, then yes, you'd be able to, to enforce based on trademark and copyright. But if let's say you only had trademark protection for the podcast, but not for the book, you may be able to enforce like, based on the zone of expansion argument, but you might not because generally speaking, book titles and like movie titles and things like that single book titles are not subject to trademark. So that's the only caveat. But yes, you are totally correct. And how you distinguish the

Acquania Escarne 20:58

two. Okay, I love it. And that's an important factor. Because when you and I went through the trademark process, we had a consultation first to help me understand what all of this was. And you actually suggested some of the categories I might want to consider with the possibility that I'll expand to that. So I'm super excited, because I knew when we started, I was already doing a podcast, I was doing the workbooks and was going to write books and helping people on my website and selling insurance. But I had a vision to do retreats, and I had a vision to do speaking. And I had a vision to do more with that, you know, business. And now I'm actually at the point two years later to do those things and putting those into place. But I'm already protected. Right? So I think that's really dope. So I do agree with you in that. Yes, you could do it yourself. But are you going to give yourself guidance and foresight to know all the categories you need to be actually applying for? And then do them? Because if you fail to do it in one category, like you said, someone could actually take your trademark and use it in a legitimate way. Because you're not you're not trademark for books, you're not trademark for this specific series that they use it in? Are there people out there? Who will research this enough to do it to actually do

Radiance Harris 22:20

absolutely, I think, you know, I've heard all the time. In fact, I was like at a business conference, maybe a few weeks back, and someone was talking about how they've gone on an event. And they were, you know, yucking it up with somebody. And that person essentially, really, you know, love that brand name of the person's business. And, you know, you do a quick trademark search, and you realize that someone hasn't protected it. And you just go in protecting yourself, you just follow the application. And it's that easy. Like, everything's a part of the public record.

So all the time, like, I'll see a cool, like trademark, and the marketplace is like, Oh, that's cool. I hope they trade market. And I'll do like a quick trademark search and realize they haven't. And I mean, that means it's, it's a fair game, it's up for grabs, so anyone can go and do it. And so that's why it's so important. But I also wanted to touch base on the point that you just made before about the importance of having like that business foresight. And so what benefit a trademark attorney brings versus DIY is the strategy. And so you know, when you did our when we did our strategy session together, like I really challenged you to think about what is your vision over the next two to three years for the business, and then for help, and then developing a strategy, how to best move with filing and determining the best trademark classes and all of those things. So people just think the trademark process is just a matter of like paper pushing and just, we you just hire us to just file your application, but we're actually doing strategic advice, legal advice, legal arguments, all of those things throughout the process. So I didn't just want to address that point. Because like, you made a good point. And a lot of clients love the fact that they do have to like sit down and really envision what their brand is going to be in the near future. And so yes, exercise.

Acquania Escarne 24:03

I love that. And I'm so glad we did that exercise because it gave me ideas to on how I could expand my business and my income. Another thing that you just kind of brought to mind when you were saying that is you know, the importance of licensing. So you and I just had a meeting about licensing and the power in making money through licensing. But for those that don't know what that means, can you give us an example and how a business could leverage their trademark to make more money for themselves?

Radiance Harris 24:35

Yeah, sure. I mean, essentially, you know, intellectual property, you have to protect your intellectual property first before you can license so licensing and just basically, you have own meaning you've established protection and intellectual property. So let's say trademarks, or copyright in this instance, and now you want to lease if you will, you're leasing the ability for someone to use your intellectual property for limited scope of time or limited purpose was for a certain fee. And so a lot of times, you'll see that with like, coaching programs, or, you know, there could be actually formal teaching programs, licensing, even books, which can technically be a form of licensing and some aspects ping on what you're doing, but you're essentially leasing.

So you're still maintaining the complete ownership rights, but you're able to make money while you sleep, right, because you've already done the due diligence. And the hard work and creating the content once in protecting your brand once. And so now once you've made that investment, now, you can just put it out there give people the opportunity to borrow and to utilize for a fee. And it's a great way to make money while you sleep.

Acquania Escarne 25:51

I love that. So like one example that I thought of when we talked about it was, let's say I create a series of financial books. And they're the purpose of money, finances, 101 series. And then a bank decides to do a program for the community, where they're going to have an instructor come in and teach finances, and they want to utilize my book as one of their tools, but they want their name to go on it, or they want my name and their name to go on it. They can license that from me, right? They can use my books, they can also put the purpose of money on publications, and people might sign up because it's the purpose of money, right? Yeah. And they're like, I know that brand, I know that they're good for finances, let me go and take this program that the purpose of money is involved in, but I may never show up to a workshop, right?

Radiance Harris 26:45

Like, you're, you're at a concert, you're at a winery, and someone else and and you've already like you're just collecting the checks. So that's what's so important. Like, you got to really leverage, like, we really think about like all this stuff, like we're in a very content heavy world right now. Like there's content everywhere content overload. And you and I'm sure there's stuff that people create, and they you know, you go on your computer and do like a content dump and look at all the stuff you've created. And you're like, How can I really leverage this to like, make money? What do I need to protect? And so it's like, it's, uh, you know, I think intellectual property audits are very useful to really be able to identify the things that can really make you some serious money and things that you need to protect and then monetize.

Acquania Escarne 27:31

I love it. I love it. I'm cutting me my check. Okay. So I want to ask you one more question about tips for entrepreneurs, you know, what are your top three tips that you would give a new entrepreneur before or while they're just starting your business?

Radiance Harris 27:48

Yeah, I would say definitely invest in the legal early. Like, I know that a lot of businesses you're trying to, you know, bootstrap stuff, but you've got to establish how you start your business. And set is essentially how you're gonna finish it. So if you started off strong, and you lay the foundation, as your business is growing, you have that peace of mind, you know, I got this structure on lock, I don't have to worry about nobody. So I mean, I'm worried about this, that. And so that's why it's so important to just kind of lay that legal foundation from the beginning. You know, getting your business entity getting your trademark file, opening bank accounts, like things like that to really legitimize your business versus kind of like winging it, and hoping nothing happens. So that's one important tip.

The second tip is like when you are determining like, what name, you want to name, your business and all of that, like, don't just don't become invested in a name or in love with a name or start using a name until you've done like a trademark search. And so, you know, you can essentially do a trademark search by going on the USPTO website, putting in the name, putting in variations of the Name and all that to see, is there anyone in my industry who's already using a name that is identical or similar to what I'm thinking? So before you start plastering and everywhere and start making it your official business name and all those things, you got to make sure that you're not committing trademark infringement on someone else. So that's my second tip.

And then thirdly, I would say to start the trademark process as soon as possible. Sooner rather than later, a lot of people think, you know, let me wait until I start making money or let me start, let me do it once I really build a brand, but sometimes it can be too late and you've already invested all this time, money resources, promoting this brand that you don't legally own. It's like, you know, the question I often ask people is like, would you build a house on land that you don't own? Like there's a lot of risk in doing that. You just go and like find some land and just build your dream house on it. Like there are so many things that can happen with that system. Even with a trademark your as you're building your livelihood, your brand on a name that you don't legally own. Like that is very risky. And so I would say starting the trademark process sooner rather than later, can be not only a big like peace of mind, but in the long run will do you far better than waiting are not doing it at all.

Acquania Escarne 30:21

Absolutely. That's facts, guys, because I have a friend who is finally at a point in her business where she's making six figures or about to hit her first six figure year, and she's ready to trademark. But literally, I want to say seven to eight months ago, she was at an event teaching people how to make earrings. She sells earrings, and she started doing workshops to teach people how to make earrings. And there was someone there who said, Oh my god, I love your name. And super awesome. What does it mean? And she said, Oh, I made the name up. But I have defined it to mean. And she tells them and they're like, oh my god, that's so dope. So dope. Do you know three months later, they filed,

Radiance Harris 31:05

of course,

Acquania Escarne 31:06

or a name with that word that she made up. And they added another phrase to what to call it their business. But then she didn't start her trademark process until three months after that. And in the search the attorney found there's someone else who filed three months ago with this same word. I don't know if you're going to be able to have this in the same industry,

Radiance Harris 31:34

same industry.

Acquania Escarne 31:35

And now she's like, and she the fact that she can literally say I met them, I talked to them, they artists participated in one of my events. I know they stole the name from me.

Radiance Harris 31:48

But there's no recourse unless very limited recourse in that situation. But it happens all

Acquania Escarne 31:53

the time. And it happens. So I don't know. I hope she doesn't have to rename but that's a possibility. And I've had another friend that happened to and she just had to rename her branch and she just because one person wouldn't one person in one category, but it was one that she needed because it was a major part of her business refuse to let her have it and they weren't using it that frequently either. But it didn't matter. They filed first it belonged to them. So guys take note this is a such a good conversation. I got so many gems. And I definitely hope you guys hit up radiant. So now this is a time to tell people where can we find you drop your website and your social media handles please

Radiance Harris 32:38

Sure you can definitely check out my website radiance IP law.com. You can follow me on Instagram at radiance Harris E S Q. And feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn as well. Radiant tears.

Acquania Escarne 32:54

I love it. I love it. So last question the name of the podcast. It's called the purpose of money. So I asked all my guests this question, what is your purpose for money?

Unknown Speaker 33:04

And that was a deep question. And now okay, catch me. Yeah, you guys are catching me off guard. But I was saying the purpose of money for me is to provide a life of freedom. Perfect.

Acquania Escarne 33:27

That's it. And everybody's purpose is different, y'all but I hope that you each have your own purpose for money. And until next time, keep building generational wealth. Thank you for listening to the purpose of money podcast. For more resources and information, check out my website, the purpose of money.com and while you're there, please sign up for our newsletter so you have the latest information on new episodes and blog posts. Until next time, keep creating freedom in your life today.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai