Episode 45: How the Cannabis Industry Works with Hope Wiseman

Acquania Escarne 0:00

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You are listening to the Purpose of Money podcast, a podcast where we talk about ways to build wealth and create more freedom in your life today. I am your host Acquania Escarne. Hey everybody, welcome back to the Purpose of Money podcast. I'm super excited today to have a special guest Hope Wiseman, who is the CEO of Mary and Main. Hope is an entrepreneur, business strategist and cannabis industry trailblazer. At the age of 25 Hope establish Mary and Maine in her hometown of Prince George's County, Maryland, becoming the youngest female African American woman cannabis dispensary owner in the United States, a graduate of Spelman College in Atlanta, where I'm from, she majored in economics in hopes of becoming an investment banker. Hope worked for SunTrust Robin Humphrey Robinson Humphrey upon graduation. but less than a year later, she reassessed her path and found herself coming back to her true purpose to help black people in their community and across the country through her entrepreneurial spirit.

In September of 2018, she opened Marion Maine with her mother, Dr. Octavia Simpkins Wiseman, and Dr. Larry Bryant, and unlimited licensed medical market in Maryland, her vision to create opportunities for black indigenous and people of color, who have been disproportionately affected by the war on drugs and excluded from the cannabis business ownership drives her passion for the industry.

Hey, Hope, welcome to the show. I'm super glad to have you How you doing today?

Hope Wiseman 2:07

I'm doing great. And thank you for having me.

Acquania Escarne 2:10

Awesome. So I am so moved by your story. That's why I invited you to be on the Purpose of Money podcast, because I really, you know, my podcast shares, women entrepreneurship stories, and I just really was inspired by why you decided to go into this industry. And so let's share a little bit with that story with our audience. You know, what inspired you to start a dispensary in Maryland at a time when not all states were opening cannabis stores? So tell us more about that.

Hope Wiseman 2:42

Yeah. So it was 2014 I had just graduated from college. And for me, you know, like my bio said, I definitely always had an entrepreneurial spirit I was raised that way. And a family of matriarchs that that made sure to instill in me the idea that I could do anything that I put my mind to so my mother was an entrepreneur, her mother was an entrepreneur, my grandmother before that also owned property in the deep south, you know, a long time ago when that was not normal. So you know, I really did grow up watching really strong women go after things that typically women don't get. So for me, my mom tried to take it a step further and I feel like every generation should do the same but my mom really wanted to take it a step further and encouraged me to continuously look for opportunities to create generational wealth for our family and for me, being an economics major working in banking all through college and then for a short period after school I definitely was thinking you know in economic markets and industries and you know what was going to be my thing my entry into really creating wealth for myself .

And I looked at the cannabis industry and in 2014 this is really early right you know, I looked at it and I was like, wow, this industry is going to be huge its growing at you know, really, really fast rates and there's no slowdown in sight. And the other thing I've thought that was really cool about the cannabis industry was that it's not really a new industry right? We already have a really booming legacy market what some people like to call the black market but just you know, because I know a lot of people listening to this are not cannabis advocates. But um, you know, we don't like to call it the black market, we call it the legacy market. But the legacy market is huge, and we can already quantify that. So I already knew how large this industry could be. I already knew the depth and the amount of different types of people that use cannabis for all the all these different reasons and I knew about the medical benefits. I understood the implications of what the government had done to target black and brown people. During the war on drugs using cannabis I understood all of these things and I realized that this industry was going to be something that really could kind of catapult my start to building wealth I don't think that you know one dispensary which a lot of people think oh I get a dispensary I'm gonna be rich and I'm creating wealth for myself like you you're on the road you have you have started the journey but that's not the end all be all but I knew that this was going to be my start I also knew I had to get in at the ground floor level I knew that this industry would grow to be large and large players were getting into it early so that would mean that I would eventually get priced out as a middle class just you know, regular educated woman I knew but not independently wealthy, not able to go anywhere and get large loans all these things and I was young with with a little bit of experience going up against people who are coming from the healthcare industry politics, athletes, all these people that literally come with a lot of experience a lot of contacts resources and or money themselves.

So I knew that my only chance was at the ground floor level. I knew also that if I didn't do it, potentially there could be nobody else like me that was able to pave a pathway. So you know, for me, I'm in the well I take that back I didn't know that at first. When I first started getting to it I just knew like my chance was to get into the ground floor level I felt like the garage was closing and I had to slide in right right when it was the right time and you know, I do believe that I got in early enough where I was able to learn a lot of things that you can do and that you can't do and the right way I've made a lot of mistakes that I'm able now to teach other people to not do as well as I have really become an industry advocate and I have been able to really help influence legislation that allows for more equitable industry so I'm really happy with what has happened I did not know that I would be blazing a trail in the way that I am. Um, but yeah, I mean I don't think about that as I'm going through you know, my days trying to plan and build upon this business I really just think about at the end of the day, this is the jumpstart This is the beginning of my journey and I care very much about building wealth for my family, but I also care about sharing it to my community because although like I said I grew up in a middle class household a lot of friends family, doctors lawyers, I had that around me but nobody was teaching me about how to maintain wealth and how to really really get it and how to build on that so I really like love what I do I love learning and I love teaching I hope to see you know I hope that my by my kids generations all of their friends are able to do things and and really start to build wealth for themselves and their family and I hope my kids are able to maintain what I am building now.

Acquania Escarne 8:03

I absolutely love that and I think that's how most journey start right we don't know the trail we're gonna blaze we just know, I need to get into this, you were drawn to it, you're passionately involved, and you had enough knowledge to get started. But one thing I want to also say is 88% of millionaires are self made. And it's through entrepreneurship, right? And so you also have found one of the fastest ways to literally build your own wealth because you're not depending on another source, right? You're not you don't have a boss who's deciding when you work, how you work, how much money you can earn. So you are limitless and that that sense. So I want to know more about you mentioned the medical benefits and in your bio you have two doctors you started this company with including your mother. So what can you share about the medical possible benefits? I know everyone's reaction could be different but what are some of those things and how is that significantly helped the black community where a lot of times we are prohibited from getting medicine because we're supposed to tolerate more pain or we're not told that we can do certain things to manage our health earlier how can this change the game?

Hope Wiseman 9:20

Definitely so that's such a great question and you know cannabis is a schedule one controlled substance that means that there is essentially there there has been no real research coming out in the US around cannabis in their medical been in its medical benefits. Although we know that cannabis used to be used in medicine. You know, pre Reagan there. We we use cannabis in the US as a typical ingredient in a lot of pharmaceutical drugs, right? So just to know that and then see how it's been demonized over the years. It's so crazy, but now things are changing. Um, you know, the actual The government the federal government just passed a bill that will allow for more companies to be able to use their cannabis for federal research. So previously there's only been one institution that has been allowed to grow cannabis and then do research on it and actual print research on it and that cannabis wasn't that good because the school didn't know what they were doing a lot of stick stems it's not the actual commercial grade cannabis that you're buying at a dispensary. So now some large scale operators are getting going to get that opportunity and we're going to get a lot of really great research.

However, we already have some and we have a lot of antidotal research a lot of people have been using cannabis for years for different reasons. So we know some basic things already we know that all there are hundreds of cannabinoids in the plant and the cannabinoid is like what you know is THC, or CBD, there's also CBN. There's Delta eight THC, there's CBG there's there's all of these different cannabinoids, there's over 100 there's also terpenes in bettors naturally found in cannabis which are naturally found in other things that we consume, like essential oils and fruits and vegetables and other parts of nature plants and things like that. So these things are naturally found in the cannabis plant and holistically together, we call it the entourage effect of being all together. They give off different feelings based on your natural endocannabinoid system. So what we have naturally in our body that connects to our nervous system, our circular system, all of the systems that make our bodies work on these cannabinoids can regulate that system and put you in homeostasis. So that's you functioning at your very best. You know, your body's very best function, and everybody has a different endocannabinoid system. So that means we all accept cannabis different ways. That's why you can smoke something, or you can take an edible and I can take an edible we have two completely different reactions. We know cannabis can help with so many different effects. But there's a lot of experimenting that has to be done because of what I just said because of the difference in our Endocannabinoid systems and how we accept cannabis as well as our tolerance levels.

But cannabis has been known to really help with anxiety and depression, it's been known to have anti inflammatory properties. So work out a lot. It helps your muscles recover, it can help with people with with immune diseases and other types of dietary issues. It can really help with inflammation with people that are going through chromes and things like that. I mean, there's just so many different implications. And a lot of people have had a lot of different results. People with cancer have been known to be able to take cannabis to manage those symptoms. It's really a useful, natural alternative healthcare solution, honestly. So you know, I say a lot of people even that have been medicating what they call adult use or recreationally, they really are medicating cannabis use is medical use always because it always has medicinal properties. So I'm really excited that I'm able to offer this alternative solution to the African American community, like you said, that has been often denied the right to have access to typical health care. And a lot of times some of the drugs that they're giving us are killing us too. They're giving us more symptoms and more drugs to manage those, those symptoms. And, you know, we know the healthcare industry is very much so based on capitalism so not that the legal cannabis industry is it I won't lie You know, it is you know, you look at the numbers, you see how much this industry is, is yielding we say that by 2024, the industry will be worth 68 to $70 billion dollars So, and that's only continues to grow at this point, the industry is not even federally legal yet. So it is definitely capitalistic. But at the end of the day, a lot of people in this industry genuinely care about the plant and they really believe in its medicinal properties. And I just love the ability to offer this alternative option. You know, I don't think it's the solve that you know, I'm not one of those people that's gonna say cannabis is gonna solve all your problems, but it will give you an alternative way to manage potential symptoms that you are experiencing.

Acquania Escarne 14:31

And that's great. And I think that's important. You named a lot just to recap, it could be anxiety, it could be cancer treatment while you're going through the treatment and, and nausea, Crohn's disease, which I actually have a family member affected by Crohn's and who was actually prescribed cannabis to help with that. So I know firsthand, it can make a difference in their quality of life while they are experiencing certain chronic medical conditions. So I want to talk more now about your journey. You were the first you were the youngest. You were African American. What challenges did you face as a young African American woman in an industry that has yet to see his full potential? logistically? What are some of the things that you had to go through if you don't mind sharing a story or two about that?

Hope Wiseman 15:23

So just in general, I don't care if you are a wealthy white man, this industry is difficult. So I'll say that first and foremost, because I think sometimes there's a picture painted, that, you know, I had a rough time, because of who I am, I think everyone has a rough time. And then there are layers added on top of that. And I honestly I think a lot of black people know that already. There's things are tough for everyone. And then we have this layer. And then for me, it's like, I have multiple layers. I'm, I was young, when I got into this, I was 22, when I first started pursuing this, so very young, going up against very established business people. So that was one black lack of experience as well. I've never run a company of this magnitude before. And it had a medical background, which I don't have. So all of those things, I definitely faced issues in the beginning. And then the industry in 2014 was very different than it is now this industry is like rapidly growing. So you learn a lot people even say that, you know, being in the industry is like dog years. So for me, I'm like, oh really like, oh, gee, oh, gee. Um, but that's great, because, you know, it hasn't even been 10 years for me.But I'm approaching that.

I believe my biggest issue back in 2014 was that just that lack of resources and information, I did not know how to, to assemble a team for a license, I did not know how to go about raising capital, I didn't know how to go about, you know, getting the subject matter expertise that I needed to go through these application processes. I had never these application processes are often like responding to a government RFP. And I did not you know, have experienced technical writing and grant writing and things like that. So for me, I had to do a lot of research and kind of figure out best practices and things like that I was really really dedicated to figuring it out. And because I didn't have hundreds of 1000s of dollars to pour into learning or paying consultants to do things for me, I had to teach myself and I had to build a team just the people that I knew that trusted me and that wanted to see us go you know, succeed not necessarily people that had the right knowledge. So I'm forever thankful to my mother and Dr. Bryan, who are both dentists My mom is a general dentist by trade Dr. Brian is an oral surgeon. um you know, then two together really supported me and between the three of us we bootstrapped the process in the beginning that being said, we were on a shoestring budget compared to people who were able to throw money at applications you know, hire experts for every little piece and use their expertise not just their knowledge, but their names and their resumes on applications and we just had to do what we had to do with us.

We hired a few consultants but again, on a shoestring budget you're gonna get a shoestring consultant so we had to do what we had to do and I really just I credit our success to just being just tenacious and just not taking no for an answer anything we didn't know we went and figured it out. We definitely took a risk and spent money traveling to meet people and talk to people to check out different dispensaries and figure things out back in 2014 because there's not a lot there wasn't a lot of research out and a lot of people who have even done what what we had done then um, but you know now I look back and like there's other people like me that exist that talk about their stories and give their experience and if I had had that I definitely would have accelerated it we probably wouldn't have spent as much money traveling I would have been able to hire consultants that really knew what they were doing they have real experience so I say that's probably the most difficult and then secondly you know, even post award and even now I'm running my business it is very difficult to these businesses are very expensive to run so okay, you know, you might be making top line revenue and just for ease of numbers, you might be making top line revenue of a million dollars a year, but you might be spending 900,000 you know, and then that 100,000 Remember to and cannabis, you're not taxed regularly. And cannabis because it's federally illegal. It's a controlled substance. You cannot deduct typical business expenses so you can't deduct your rent expense, your payroll, your marketing expenses, none of these things you can deduct, so I'm paying taxes on my top line revenue. on my gross revenue and you know oftentimes you just heard how much I said that you might spend right so if I'm spending only thing you can deduct is your cogs your cost of goods sold so that for a retail dispensary that is only the cost of the medicine and that means that potentially I mean let's say you spend half a million dollars you made a million you spend half a million dollars but then you spend another 400,000 in payroll, rent, marketing, office supplies whatever whatever and you have $100,000 profit you're getting taxed on 500,000 so potentially your your tax your tax bill might be more than $100,000 and you only had $100,000 profit so this industry is like it's it's very difficult to manage you have to you have to really be smart and savvy clean even when you're making a lot of money you got to be lean people are not going to understand that this industry has a long way to go but it has so much potential and and I really just you know I think I'm gonna go back to something I said in the beginning. I knew that this industry was worth even going through these hardships in the beginning because we already know what how much it's actually worth. This is not an industry that is you know, crypto has come in and like you see people it's like booming sometimes and then sometimes it's kind of like what's happening in crypto like is this gonna die kind of like NFT's and NFTs came out they were hot. You know now it's like kind of cooling down right? Is this gonna be a big industry or not? cannabis we already know it is. We already know people are buying cannabis on the street, we already can quantify how much cannabis is floating around. So eventually we know this is all going to become legal. We already know the industry is going to be huge. So it's worth kind of going through these hardships to get in at the ground floor level so that you're not barred once it becomes easy look once the cannabis becomes easy to get into if you're too late.

Acquania Escarne 21:59

I appreciate you sharing our transparency. And honestly, the tax game I had no idea that sounds like a headache, especially when you're trying to feed people, right? And it's not just you that you're trying to build wealth for it. You have staff like how big is your team?

Hope Wiseman 22:18

So we are there's about 20 of us. I have about eight full time employees, the rests are part time employees. I'm also building out other parts of the business outside of just our retail piece. So like later this year, you'll probably start hearing things about Wise co Wise co is our parent company and some of the other things we're doing. I just made my first hire on that side of the business. Um, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people I'm responsible for people's livelihoods. And that is a lot of pressure. Yeah,

Acquania Escarne 22:50

Absolutely.

Hope Wiseman 22:51

Even for my own self. And you know, my mother now my mother works with the company every day, she's full time with our company as well. So you know that there's a lot of pressure and I definitely feel I feel sometimes overwhelmed by it. But it does make me also feel really great that I'm I've created something that can provide for this new people.

Acquania Escarne 23:13

I love it and you are a true boss. Like this is crazy. So just to clarify, you are also full time with your business.

Hope Wiseman 23:21

Yeah, right? I'm full time in the business.

Acquania Escarne 23:24

Were there any steps that you took financially or educationally before you started to help you prepare for full time entrepreneurship? The reason I asked that question is because a lot of my listeners are intrapreneurs we had they have nine to five jobs, but they do have a side hustle or a business they want to go full time in and they're constantly asking for tips on the transition. So if you if you were the one who took the big leap, you could be honest about it. But if you did have anything you did to prepare, you know, please share.

Hope Wiseman 23:56

Yeah, okay, so I'll be honest, but I still have tips to share. But honestly, for me, I was right out of school, right? While I was in school, I saved a lot of money, worked a lot of jobs did a lot of different things. I was all over the place I used to work for Red Bull. If anyone remembers a little Mini Coopers with the can on the back and Red Bull girls, that was me. I was a Falcons cheerleader. At one point. I worked in my school's Writing Center helping to edit papers. I also at one point, you know, I bartended in college and all these different things. So I saved a lot of money while I was in school. I was fortunate enough to go throughout school without student loans due to scholarships, and also my parents. So I was really fortunate to come out of school with you know, hardly any debt with money saved. Got a great job right out of school was saving money at that point. So I started my entrepreneurial journey. Yes, with some Money what I thought with some money in the cannabis industry and going through what we went through we probably spent within a couple months but I was lucky to have people to lean on so moved back in with my mom in the beginning which was hard for me I had been gone for seven years. I moved back in with my mother started the business wasn't making any money. For the first few years didn't pay myself until about year two of operations. I worked in the business as well. Like physically day to day in the store, I'm not day to day in the store at all anymore, I don't work in the store but started out working in the store for $0 I would say that you know, if you really want to, if you want to take the leap, you're going to have to do things like that, you're going to have to be okay with staying you know, staying low till you get to the next point and you're going to have to be okay with putting in hard work and not seeing fruits of the labor initially, I went through that, but I definitely had support going through it. And I you know, it took a while, but it paid off, it paid off. Now I'm able to fully support myself, I'm able to travel, I'm able to focus on business development for our business and not day to day operations of one retail store.

But it took a good year of me actually working in the business, it took two years of us trying to get the store off the ground with no pay, then another year of no pay and working really hard in the business to get to that point. So I'd say if you're really looking to transition a little bit more smoothly, if you stay out, I mean, it's all about saving. It's all about making sure you're saving, and you're gaining the knowledge that you need, and you have a plan. So I would say if I were working a job, I had a side business, I would just continuously have a plan to scale the business. Once you do once you make $1,000, you can make $5,000 make once you make five, you can make 10. And once you make 10, you can make 20, you have to continuously build things that are scalable, create, you know, create processes create things that you can constantly repeat, and that you can also give to other people to repeat. That's how you scale a business. And once you get to the point where you're making double what you make at your nine to five with with, you know, two times less work hours put in, that's when you leave your business, that's what or when you leave your job and you focus on your business. And at that point, that's when you try and scale 10 times from where you start.

But I yeah, I really I get worried when people are like, should I just quit it all and start doing I was like you don't even know if you can do it. Because it takes a lot of consistency. And it takes a lot of grit. And I'm sorry, I don't think everybody got it. I don't think everybody got it in them. And well, I think the back everyone has it. But a lot of people are just not willing to do it. You think you are you want it you say you want it but you're not really like really willing to do it. So I like to see those people that are willing to stay up till midnight after they worked all day working on their business. And they get their business to a point where it's like, Okay, I know I'm going to be comfortable if I quit. Because for six months now I've been making, you know, at least what I make at my other job for six months. Now I know that's not going to change. So I know if I leave this, I'm going to be comfortable, you know, because I've been saving that money, I haven't even touched it, I don't spend that money. You know, those are the people that are ready to move to the next level.

Acquania Escarne 28:27

I love it. Those are really good tips. So guys, I hope you were listening. She gave you some good advice. savings is key, but also monitoring your progress in your journey, making sure that you are consistently scaling up. And I always say entrepreneurship full time entrepreneurship is not for everyone. So if you know that it's not for you, you can always continue to maintain both your nine to five and your business as long as you are giving whoever you're giving your services or products to all that you can right. So continuing to manage a business well. So Hope this has been an awesome conversation. And I'm so thankful that you shared your story with us today. One of my signature questions I asked all my guests is what is your purpose for money?

Yeah, my purpose for money is is genuinely to build generational wealth. I want to see when I'm no longer here, I want my story to inspire others at the same time. I want it to inspire my own family. I expect my my kids kids kids to be talking about their great great great grandmother, and the things that she did and how that has inspired a history of women entrepreneurs of men that have carried on legacies because started by women and that's have supported and loved women and built things that support women. That's what I want my legacy to be and that's my purpose for what I do. I want to teach other people how to do the same and I'm not one of those people that's like you know I I'm not going to tell you that I know everything right I'm just going to tell you what I've been through. There are people who haven't been what they've been through what I've been through and that's my audience right now as I continue to elevate my audience will change but I love to share my story because that's that's my purpose. That's why I'm here. My mother told me when I was when I was leaving for college. She said to me that she named me Hope for her, because she was going through some some hard things when I was born and she started her dental practice the year I was born as well but she was going through some other hard personal things during that time and when I went away to college she said but now I want you to go be Hope for everyone else. So I just that's that's my purpose that's why I'm doing this that's why I care I'm comfortable now like I don't need to do more I really am comfortable with my life right now. But I will never stop chasing more and and continue success because I know that this is what it's going to take to inspire a generation after me other people as well as my own family I really want my own family generations from now I hope i'm looking down from heaven and I'm like yeah, we started a real I started something there so

I love it. Yes, Trailblazer true at heart. Now I'd love it if you could just drop your website and anywhere else that guest can follow you connect with you. We definitely want to make sure those out there who want to get in touch can

Definitely so guys I'm most active on Instagram so you can follow me @IAmHopeSoDope. I'm getting my personal website together so you can definitely check it out and drop your email there and you'll get to see when I drop a new website but HopeWiseman.com. And then if you want to follow my dispensary and that journey, we are at Mary and Main so MARY AND MAIN on all social medias and MaryMain.com for our web address.

Awesome awesome thank you so much again Hope for being on the show. Guys. If you liked this episode, please like it, share it with those who need to hear it. I so appreciate all of you for listening and your continued support. Until next time, keep building generational wealth.

Thank you for listening to the Purpose of Money podcast. For more resources and information check out my website the PurposeofMoney.com And while you're there, please sign up for our newsletter so you have the latest information on new episodes and blog posts.

Until next time, keep creating freedom in your life today.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai