Episode 101: How to Navigate Divorce with Kimberly Cook

Acquania Escarne 0:04

You are listening to the Purpose of Money podcast, a podcast where we talk about ways to build wealth and create more freedom in your life today. I am your host Acquania Escarne.

Acquania Escarne 0:16

Hey guys, welcome back to the Purpose of Money podcast today I am super excited. We are joined with Kimberly Cook, and we're going to talk about how to navigate the divorce process without being Stereotyped, Stigmatised and Silenced. Kimberly Cook is a Divorce Attorney and Mediator she spent her career working with individuals and families navigating divorce. Divorce is more than just a legal process. The decisions made during the process are influenced by our culture, our community and society. Society's divorce narrative is not written with us women of colour in mind and the divorce process also find black women stereotyped, stigmatised, and silence. And you know what the truth is? Yes, black women get divorce. And yes, we deserve better when we do. It takes a village to get through divorce. And not everyone has a sister soror friend like Kimberly to help them through the process. And today we're gonna talk about how Kimberly suggests you navigate the process and how her platform Grown Girl Divorce can help educate and empower you to navigate divorce because sometimes you need a village you need a sister, you need a friend.

Acquania Escarne 1:37

Hey, Kimberly, welcome to the Purpose of Money podcast. Thank you so much for being here today. How are you?

Kimberly Cook 1:43

I'm good. Even better after listening to that intro. I gotta say I'm all psyched. Like, yes, let's do this.

Acquania Escarne 1:51

Let's do it and grow. It's all about you boo, I'm super excited. We are both members of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority Incorporated. Now I know this is gonna be a late conversation because you are a sword. So before we happen to the nitty-gritty of today's topic, I want to take a step back, because I always like my listeners to know who they're talking to. And what was life for you like when you were growing up? So I want to know your money story. What was money like for you when you were a kid?

Kimberly Cook 2:22

Oh, wow! That's a good one. So let me just say, you know, I have parents who are old school, but we're trying to do some things, right. So we, you know, my dad worked for the Department of Defence. And we moved overseas when I was like, third, fourth grade. And I bring that up, because we spent most of my upbringing outside of the US. And so when I think about kind of money and money story, I know that like we lived around third world poverty, which is different than what people see in the US, right. And so I always had an awareness that we were very blessed in many ways. And so my parents, though, I think, did a very good job of making sure that we talked about money, we talked about the importance of money, and charitable giving. And I think that has kind of framed me as a person.

Kimberly Cook 3:21

Now, seperately, I also came from parents who were like, everybody gets a job from like, sixth grade, right? So it was always, you know, you had to hustle you had to figure out some sort of plan some sort of job. So I've been working for a very long time. But where I think, and I hate to say this, my mom would be devastated to hear me say this, but I think where they kind of missed the boat, my parents were a little bit of the, you work very hard, You Save it Until You Spend it, meaning that you know, our summer jobs. We worked, we worked, we worked, and then we would come to the States and we would like spend the money. And so I think, growing up, they probably could have done a little bit better about exposing us to the kinds of things that they were doing investment, saving for retirement, at least having those conversations. We didn't have those, and I didn't kind of really understand those and the value of that until much later. But I would say you know, very kind of comfortable upbringing had exposure to a lot of different things. But certainly charitable giving was a big part of kind of my life and exposure and living.

Kimberly Cook 4:36

But then also, you know, I like to shop, I can shop anywhere and everywhere. That's probably a little bit of a problem. And I get that I think honestly.

Acquania Escarne 4:47

Oh, I love that. I'd love to know, where did you live when you first moved overseas?

Kimberly Cook 4:53

Yeah, we lived in Panama. And, you know, Panama is like trending topic these days. But when I, when I moved Gosh, back in like 87. Here I am dating myself. It was not trending topic. And when you told people you move into Panama, they thought Florida, right? They weren't thinking of Panama. Now at least now when I say Panama people are like, okay, but ya know, we lived in Panama and I elementary, middle and high school. So yeah. Adopted Panamanian

Kimberly Cook 5:22

Yeah, I love it. So I am half Panimi. And my dad is born and raised in Panama. And so he and grandma moved everyone to New York. So yes, pick up to Panama. Love it. Love it. Love it. I've been several times and it is still a has a special place in my heart. But also, I come from 15 years in the government as a Foreign Service officer. And I've lived abroad in Haiti, Dubai, United Arab Emirates, Ecuador, and done several tours in DC. So I know completely well, your transition as a child overseas, because I transitioned my family overseas. I actually had a son in Dubai during my tour there. So shout out to your family on exposing you to the world. And yeah, you to one of the best post in the world. Still a tough place to live?

Kimberly Cook 6:20

Yeah, look at that connection.

Acquania Escarne 6:21

Yeah, we have so many things. We're learning about each other today. And I love it. It just means this was all in divine order. Because yeah, we were introduced through a really good friend. And now we are hitting it off and finding other connections. A small tangent, but I was recently talking to someone who said, the next time you're in a room, like a networking event, or an opportunity where you're around a lot of strangers, try to find in a small group of people, five things you don't have in common. And you will see how hard it actually is to do. Because if you're doing it with a group of let's say, one to five people, or you know, two to five people, more than likely someone in that group will have that thing that they do know or love just like you so then you have to keep looking for something until you find one thing, five times that no one has in common. And it helps you get to know people. So you and I are literally going through that process through this conversation. We, have found two similarities, right? Yes, definitely sparked combo. So I love that love.

Kimberly Cook 7:28

I love that. I'm going to try that.

Acquania Escarne 7:31

Yeah, so do it. So that's my networking tip. Next time you're in a room, play that game, try to five things you don't have in common with a group of people. And then you'll learn so much more about each other and what you have in common. But let's get back to the subject at hand. So you are a divorce attorney and mediator and sister soror friend. Black women navigate the divorce process. I want you to share with us what inspired you to start Grown Girl Divorce? And what is it so people can understand how that platform can help them?

Kimberly Cook 8:06

Yeah, great. So you know, I think it was really. It happened organically, I gotta be honest. So I've been a divorce attorney for the better part of 16 years only. And, you know, represented men, women, all socio-economic levels, all races, ethnicities. But time and time again, were my black female clients who were really struggling not necessarily with the process, but with the divorce experience, right. And so, there's a difference between talking about the process. When you think about this idea of process, we're talking just generally about the legal process. And realistically, the legal process for everybody should be about the same from start to finish.

Kimberly Cook 8:44

The divorce experience, though, how you show up in the process, how you were treated in the process, how you navigate the process is very different. And what I kept seeing time and time again, were that as black women, we were not a part of the larger divorce narrative in conversation. And by that, I mean, you can Google resources, you can listen to podcast, and every talking head, you know, Alla expert, every download really wasn't talking to us and it wasn't giving voice to our experience. And so, you know, I finally said you know what, enough! I have girlfriends who can come to me and ask those questions that are real specific to us and our experiences. Why shouldn't every woman of colour every black woman have that and so, Grown Girl Divorce came out of this desire are in real need to support educate and empower us through this process.

Kimberly Cook 9:39

So what is it, it's a divorce resource company that is designed to educate and empower black women through the process. And we do that through various resources through events. Because it's really about us creating a space of relatability. So that you feel seen and heard, appreciated, valued, and know that as a black woman, we do get divorced. There are others out here who are getting divorced, you're not alone. And your village is here. That's what it is.

Kimberly Cook 10:43

In full disclosure, the fact that I do this work and not divorce, my parents were not divorced. But it's something that I honestly, I'm passionate about, I believe in and I really feel like it is something that God put me in this space to do. Because realistically, there is no reason that I'm in the divorce space, other than it was, you know, destined to be that way. But I love what I do. And I love what I've been doing for a very long time. So that's Grown Girl Divorce.

Acquania Escarne 11:16

Yeah, I love that. And I love when people follow their purpose, because they're even more successful when when you're following the path God wants for you. He will open up all the doors. Okay.

Kimberly Cook 11:28

And I gotta believe it. You know, I'll tell you my law school though. I was at the Catholic University of America for law school. I'm not the poster child for the Catholic University of America law school as the divorce attorney. However, however, you know, I truly and firmly believe that everyone deserves to be in a healthy and a happy relationship. And if you find yourself not in that, there is a way to transition out of that. And divorce may be the process for you. So I it's about everybody being in healthy spaces. And that's the work that I want to do.

Acquania Escarne 12:08

I love how you phrase that healthy and happy relationships. What in your experience have you seen to be the most common reason people come to you seeking divorce?

Kimberly Cook 12:19

People are unhappy! And I know that's not the sexy answer, or the expected answer that people think oftentimes people think it's infidelity, or abuse, but it's really not those oftentimes are the symptoms, they're not the root. And so the real problem is that people are unhappy, and they're not communicating with each other until there's been a breakdown. And so they go outside of the relationship, or they are engaging with the person in the relationship in a toxic way, because they are unhappy. So I would say most people who come to the divorce table, let's say that, it's simply because they are unhappy, and not a one time I'm unhappy. It's been years, right. This is not a oh, we had a fight today. But it's we haven't been happy for years. And enough is enough! That's why most people come and then of course, then followed by those other things, right. Certainly infidelity, abuse, lack of communication. But again, most of the time, those are symptoms of this underlying real cause. And that's really the unhappiness in the relationship.

Acquania Escarne 13:43

That's really interesting, because depending on what you're reading, they'll always say, oh, it's financial issues, you know, finances tends to be a breaking point. I know, it can be an area of stress. And it definitely doesn't necessarily help. But it's interesting that you say that because happiness matters. I think, as women and black women, we are sometimes led to believe that our happiness doesn't matter. Or it should be at the sacrifice of our kids, our spouse, our job or these other things that have to get done. But I actually believe that your happiness is just as important. I think God wants us to be happy and I think that we function better as people when we're happy. So it's no surprise that when you're not, you will display that behaviour, like you said, taking it out on your partner, or maybe not communicating well for years. And then finally somebody says enough is enough. Right? That's key.

Kimberly Cook 14:42

Absolutely. And you know, it's so funny. I have always tell people being unhappy is enough. Right? It's enough. Right? So you're saying you know, happiness matters? Absolutely. And and, look, I'm not pro divorce, right? I really I want people or to be here it is happily married, right? Like, I'm all for that. And so when you are unhappy for whatever the reason is, it's enough to be like, I deserve to be happy. And if that means that I'm going in a different, different direction in my relationship, then that's all you and that's great. And, you know, in reference to money, and financial concerns being an issue, certainly, that oftentimes stems from a breakdown in the communication. But again, it's going back to somebody is unhappy about something that's being played out. Maybe it's the expectations that we brought to the marriage, the lack of discussions that we talked about. And so now, it's manifesting itself via our financial situation, or financial distrust. So it all kind of stems from, you know, this basic question, but seminal question. Are you happy? Period? Right? And if you aren't, then what do we need to do to get you there? And divorce might be a part of that.

Acquania Escarne 16:17

That is so good. So are you happy? So I definitely am curious to know, in your experience, you may not necessarily know the statistics for the industry, when you come to the table and you are a mediator, what is the chances are, how likely is it that someone will come to the table actually make a concerted effort and end up staying married?

Kimberly Cook 16:41

So I would say, if people are coming to mediation, with the intention of what we call kind of discernment, right? So figuring out is our relationship worth kind of saving. And we're having discussions about what our plan is to save the marriage, right? Then you're gonna look at about 80% of those can be saved, okay. But here's the key, People have to come to the mediation table, in good faith, and with the intention of reaching the same goal, because mediation is all about problem solving. And so if our goal is to save our marriage, then we frame things from the perspective of saying, okay, it's not you and I against each other, it's you and I together against the problems. And so then we problem solve with that in mind. But what often happens, you have one person who's coming to the table, not necessarily interested in actually reaching the goal of staying married. And so that's a reality for , that remaining 20% Where it, I'm gonna do this, because, you know, I'm being dragged to try to do this. But that's not really my interest. And so there in lies the breakdown.

Kimberly Cook 18:15

On the flip side, though, for participants in mediation, who are coming to the process, with a goal of divorce, but doing it in a way that is amicable, and gives them a greater sense of control than say, the traditional court process, same kind of thing. If we're all coming to the table in good faith, looking to problem solve, then there in lies, your higher percentage, so about 90% of those cases, then can be resolved in mediation, and reach full and final resolution. So I'm a big, big supporter of mediation, whether it's we're trying to figure out a plan because our goal is to remain married. Or it's we have decided that marriage is really not where we need to move forward. But we need to put a plan in place for how we are going in our separate spaces. So that's going to be the difference.

Acquania Escarne 19:21

You actually raise the good point about coming together amicably, like every time you see celebrities or getting divorced, they always say, so and so and so and so, amicably divorce and you're just like, what does that mean he say, Bye, John! It was nice knowing you but I am out, you know, but I always like why do we always say that? But it leads me to my question. My next question about that planning, and how you can plan ahead in some cases, but I don't want this question to be interpreted to mean you're planning for a divorce. I wanted to know as a as an attorney, what do you think are some of the things women can do before getting married? That makes the divorce process run more smoothly? If it happens?

Kimberly Cook 20:11

Yeah, great question. Let me say one quick thing before I answer that. Celebrity divorces, right? are in many ways, the model by which everybody should follow. Okay? Now, there are the outliers, okay? The ones that you see splashed across the news and, and the like, but here's the reality of the celebrity, quote, amicable divorces. There's a team of people working behind the scenes, operating the divorce as a business deal. And that's, in fact, what it is, right? Your marital unit, think of it as a business partnership. And now we have to unwind it. And how we do it is not by burning down the building. Right? We and so the average person loses sight of that, but celebrities and high profile individuals know, there's so much more to lose when you do it that way, than sitting down and hashing out details. So it's not a kumbaya, but it's very intentional. So just wanted to kind of throw that in there. Because as someone who represents high profile and entertainers and athletes, I can tell you it's very intentional process. And, and one by which everybody should be doing so with that than to answer your question on what can women do? Pre-marriage, to really help them if they end up getting divorced?

Kimberly Cook 21:42

First and foremost, you want to be prepared, right? You have to know who you're marrying. And I say that knowing that people get very caught up in in love, and that's wonderful. We want everybody to be in love. But marriage is a legal contract. And so putting the love aside for the moment, you have to know who you're marrying. And the best way to do that is to really have really good conversations about what my expectations are finances, what the expectations are when it relates to children, where we see ourselves as a couple having these conversations, one, whether it's premarital counselling, whether it's with a spiritual advisor or with a coach, those things are key to laying a solid foundation and then there's the prenuptial agreement. And I know everybody gets real uncomfortable when that word comes up. But let me say this. The benefit of a prenup is that everybody is coming to the table. Bare meaning you have to lay bare, you have to disclose, you have to strip down naked and show everything that you got right as a part of the prenup process, and people lose sight of that. So you are now marrying somebody you don't know what their finances are. You don't really know what their income is with their employment. You don't know their employment history. In the prenup process. You do because you have to. That's a requirement full and complete disclosures are required. And so I say to women all the time before you dismiss the idea of a prenup because people think of it as divorce planning. Think of it from the framework of insurance, meaning we don't have insurance because we think we're gonna get into a car accident, or we think that you know, something's going to happen to us health wise, we have insurance for auto and health to protect us in the event that something does. A prenuptial agreement does the same thing. It's we are laying bare, we are figuring out a plan while we are all amicable and in love and setting up certain protections so that if things change, we have a plan in place that sets and lays everything out to protect us. So you got to communicate, you've got to protect yourself before you then say I do because the legal ramifications are too great not to take and do some of this preparation work before you get married so that I'm really really really hard on women when it comes to we are too advance we are too smart, we are too successful to go into marriage blind. You really have to do the homework in preparing for a marriage, in the event of a divorce.

Acquania Escarne 25:09

That is so good. And so let me just recap that for you because there's a couple of things that I want people to understand and walk away from this conversation very clear about. So I am in the life insurance industry, I sell life insurance, specifically and disability insurance. Now, life insurance is an exception, because we are all going to die. And we want you to get life insurance to prepare for your front funding your family's finances when you're gone, or when you die too soon. But disability operates in a similar way in that you're getting disability insurance in the event, you're sick or injured and unable to do your job which interrupts your income. And you get disability insurance because you want to know if something happens, you'll be protected. So the prenup is very, very similar in that it is protecting you, you and your finances if you do end up getting a divorce. But my question to you is, is that at certain stages, because now Millennials are waiting longer to get married. So they may have their house already, they may have their retirement savings, and maybe even a business that they are working in nurturing when they decide to get married, versus when I got married at 25. I've just started my government job. I had no kids. And I only had my retirement savings from when I was started at a teenager. But nothing really more than that. But do you think that it matters if you're at 25? With not much or 35 and have half a million in net worth? Or do you think you only needed at that 35? Like what what is the criteria? I guess if you're coming to the table.

Kimberly Cook 26:53

I love that because my response is always even Broke Girls need a prenup. And and here's the thing, right? Because, listen, it's a forward thinking plan. We don't know what the future holds. Okay. And there is a misconception that Prenuptial Agreements are only designed for wealthy individuals. Yes, that certainly is where it came from, right? This idea that I want to protect what I'm bringing to the table. And in large part laws have adjusted for that meaning, if you have a large inheritance, it doesn't matter what state you're in, there are generally laws that talk about your inheritance that you you know, got from your family, that's usually going to stay with you. But when we think about things like that retirement account you are referencing, even if it's, well, I only have a couple $1,000 It was my first job out i It's yours. And it's one of the things that you don't want to 5, 10, 15 years from now, having to even question about whether or not you get to keep that because there's some emotional attachment to it was my first job, right? Why am I fighting with you over whether this is mine or not. But here's what happens in a marriage, things get commingled, we lose paperwork, things happen. And so if you have a prenup, and you are able to line out and say when we were married, here are all of the things that I had, when we were broke and just starting out or whatever it is right. At a minimum, I want to leave the marriage with these things. Right.

Kimberly Cook 28:45

So, that's the first step. It protects those things that you had from start. And again, maybe that's your first car. And I know a lot of people are like, but I have nothing. Okay, no problem. You can design a prenuptial agreement based on what makes sense for you. So it's not an all or nothing, it doesn't mean that nobody gets spousal support, or it doesn't mean that you don't get access to certain retirement benefits. But you can design things like if we decide that I'm going to be the stay at home parent, at some point in the future, then I shall be entitled to spousal support, or here is, you know, what we want to do in terms of how our retirements are treated during the marriage, if it's held in my name, it's mine. If it's joint, it's ours. You can design just about anything, except for child related child support. Those are against public policy laws. And then in most states now, you can't do things like what we call kind of the punitive clauses meaning, you know, if you gain 15 pounds, then you know you don't get support or you know, people will try to do some wild things. But you know, those are and let me tell you, here's here. Here is another reason why you want to do that prenup because if you've got a spouse who wants that kind of language in a prenup, you don't need to marry this person. Real talk. Lining out and understanding where people's heads are at really comes out in the negotiation of a prenup. It should be a collaborative effort, when it starts getting real nasty, and it starts getting punitive. Those are red flags that maybe this is not the relationship for you. So keep those things in mind. But yeah, I would really say that even if you don't think you, quote, have anything, it's worth sitting down and talking to a divorce attorney to understand your options. In terms of what makes the most sense. I've had lawyers who have kind of said to clients, oh, it's not worth doing it. And then five years later, when they're getting divorce, they regret not doing it, or at least having the conversation to have the conversation,

Acquania Escarne 31:20

Have the conversation and always remember Broke Girls need prenups to that. I want you to give my listeners who they're like, look, I'm married, I've been married or I just got married and I did not have the conversation. What are my options? Are you allowed to get something after marriage?

Kimberly Cook 31:43

Yes. So there is something called a post nup right. So it's a post nuptial agreement. And it structured in many ways, like a prenup, meaning we've got to disclose kind of the circumstances as things are right now. But then it's designed to kind of lay out okay, in the event we were to get divorced, here is what we want to do. Now, I will tell you, when you're thinking about doing a post nuptial agreement, it's going to be really important that you know, the laws in your state because some states are very particular about the timing of the entry of a post nuptial agreement. And you want to make sure that it is done in a way that is not intended to be divorced planning. Let me say that again, the intention is not divorce planning. The intention is a here's been a change in our circumstances. And we want to clarify things or we've decided that we want to carve out certain things. However, neither one of us is filing for divorce within the next three months or six months. And in some states, it might be even a year. So be very, very certain before you sign a post nuptial agreement or try to have a postnup drafted, that you know the laws and where you are, because there are some specific nuances that you've got to keep in mind.

Acquania Escarne 33:25

I love that. That's really good advice. So, um, do you remember how did you see that movie? Tyler Perry's Why did I get married to?

Kimberly Cook 33:35

I Did.

Acquania Escarne 33:36

Okay! You remember the scene where they're both on each side of the table? And Janet Jackson is like, why do you want proceeds from my book? I wrote the book. I wrote the pages. You didn't stay up all night and edit and copy in this and her husband was like, Well, I supported you and I did this, that that was a crazy emotional scene. But it it it to me is an example of how you might discover your passion in your marriage right and put your heart and soul into it create it is super successful. And now unfortunately, you're getting a divorce. How do you best navigate situations like that? What is your advice to women?

Kimberly Cook 34:19

That's great. You have to be very careful, because what is acquired, obtained, you know, founded during a marriage is presumably marital, okay? And so when we think about things like a book or a business or the side hustles you have to be very, very careful knowing that in and of itself, it is a marital, marital property or there's a component of it. So, when you are going to start a business. Or if you are thinking about I'm going to write a book, I always recommend that either you speak with a divorce attorney or a trademark lawyer. And in some cases, a trusted estate lawyer. The reason for the difference in all three is because you want to set up whether it's the business or the book, or whatever the idea may be, you want to make sure that it's structured, or titled, in a way that's almost outside of the marital estate. So let me give you an example. When people have a land trust, they don't personally own the property, right, the land trust owns it. The same with other funds or assets that are put into a trust, you don't own it, the trust owns it. And so in the divorce process, there are ways to kind of capture certain assets or certain items, so that they technically are outside of the marital estate, depending on what it is. Now, that's not always the case, okay. But it's very important to speak with me with someone, when you're thinking about starting a business or a new venture, in in terms of how do I kind of protect this.

Kimberly Cook 36:33

The other thing to be honest about is, you might not be able to okay, and you started a business during the marriage, you put your blood, sweat and tears into it. But don't discount the fact that your spouse may have in some ways been helpful. Now I get it. Maybe that looks like you were working all night and trying to get this thing going. They were feeding the kids or picking up the kids from school, or they were keeping the mortgage paid so that you could follow your passion and your dream. If the shoe were on the other foot, would you want to at least realise some involvement or value at the end of the day. And so be very clear on the reason that you're pushing so hard against or trying to discount someone's involvement in in your business venture or process, because oftentimes, they did support in some way that we often overlook. And so it may not be 50% of the business value. But maybe it is worth saying 5% 10% so that you can then move forward.

Acquania Escarne 37:55

Yes, that is such a good point. Because I tell people this all the time, like my ability to be an entrepreneur has a lot to do with my village, which includes my husband, and the days that I'm recording back to back podcast episodes, or I'm in back to back meetings, he is handling the kids the food dinner, you know, facilitating our life, and we need to not discount that effort and that support. And in some cases, your spouse may be your listening ear for new ideas may be the person who helps spark a new idea. So it definitely is worth acknowledgement. And sometimes people just want that recognition. But then you also need to figure out how does that impact the business when you are separating. So that's a really, really good perspective. I do have a question since, you you hinted that you have worked with celebrities and athletes, and they have the blueprint on how they do be done. But is it always true that when you have the best or most expensive attorney, you get the best side of the deal?

Kimberly Cook 39:06

No, it's not. And I can tell you from personal experience and my personal experience, I spent my career at the largest divorce firm in the country. And it's an excellent firm. It's an expensive firm and every lawyer there, I would argue is a good lawyer that said, there are many very good lawyers who are solo practitioners, or who are at smaller firms, and don't have the same kind of cost because they don't have the same overhead. Right. So don't discount someone just based on well, you know, they're not at a big firm or they're not $700 an hour, because here's the thing, divorce is expensive and it gets very expensive, very quickly. And so don't make the mistake of jumping to the most expensive person thinking, that's going to get me the best deal. Because it, it may not okay. There are good lawyers who can be found at every price point. There are horrible lawyers who can be found at every price point. The reason celebrities or high profile, clients often find themselves at these larger firms has a lot to do with bandwidth for the firm, a solo practitioner does not necessarily have the bandwidth or the capacity to manage not just the actual kind of file, but also what comes with that meaning having to navigate the media, knowing that you will be interacting with probably 10 different people at any given time on this individuals team. And that can be very difficult and overwhelming for a one on one person to do. So oftentimes, you will see that our celebrities are at kind of larger firms, or have very expensive teams. And it's because they are handling a lot of pieces that the average person just doesn't have. And so don't need those kinds of needs. But doing your homework and finding the right lawyer for you is really key and making your divorce process, not just amicable, but so that you're not financially ruined, but don't run to the most expensive person because, you know, that doesn't work, in most cases, to someone's benefit. I can tell you that.

Acquania Escarne 41:54

Yeah, absolutely. And I would say that besides the attorney fees and, and the time and maybe even the effort and it takes to get a divorce. I know it can be expensive, from a financial perspective as well, if you are someone who's in a state where the rule might be, oh, you've been married for 10 years or more, this person is entitled to some of your retirement benefits. So now you find yourself giving them half of your retirement or equivalent thereof. And starting over at probably an older age than you ever expected. I noticed I was reading something recently where it said a lot of people are getting divorced in their 50s now and having to navigate divorce and a new relationship if that's what they desire has been one of the reasons people work longer because they were closer to retirement. Right. And all of a sudden they're starting over possibly with without the home, they thought they would share with their spouse or without the same amount of retirement savings they had before the divorce. And so that's something to also consider.

Kimberly Cook 43:06

Oh, absolutely, you know, there's certainly a rise on and, you know, it's commonly referred to as, quote The grey divorce. And, and that's in reference to write an older age of divorce. But regardless of the age, there will be a financial transition as a part of a divorce. And so whether that splitting of retirement accounts or whether that, you know, we're selling our home, there is a transition, and you have to take that into account, when you're going through the process, you also have to take into account that just because your girlfriend's divorce was finished in six months, doesn't mean that yours will. And so you've got to be prepared, that this thing can go on longer than you anticipated. And it can become a cash flow issue, because the mortgage still has to be paid tuition for the kids have to be paid, gas in the car, all of these things. But now on top of that you have legal fees for you legal fees for your spouse, you know, maybe even other expert fees. And I can tell you that at the end of the month, these people are looking to get paid, nobody's working for free. And they want their money, regardless of how you come by it. And so I've had many, many people who found themselves where they are having to take out a home equity line during the middle of a divorce, which keep in mind that it's going to have to be split between y'all at some point, right? Because they were trying to keep up with legal fees. So be very clear about what you can afford when you think about hiring a lawyer because the process is not guaranteed to be quick, fast and in a hurry.

Acquania Escarne 45:07

Absolutely facts! Man, I've learned so much from this conversation. Because what I know about divorce is what I learned on TV and what I see in my family, right. But I've never actually experienced that I'm blessed to also be in a happy loving marriage. And I continue to want to be that example for my sons. But I realised that for some of my family members, divorce was the best option for them. I've also seen the opposite where people stay married, and you know, good and well, they shouldn't, but shouldn't the choice they made who am I to judge right? So I want to thank you so much, Kimberly, for this conversation, and then your insight into the space of, you know, process of getting a divorce, and how your platform can be a resource to help us if you can, I want you to answer one of my signature questions. So the name of the podcast is called the Purpose of Money. And I asked all my guests this question, what is your purpose for money?

Kimberly Cook 46:13

My purpose for money, I think, is to give my children the leg up in their own lives, as they figure out who they are.And so for me, it's about using it as a tool right now, to set things in motion so that when it's time for them to start their lives, right, they have the ability to do so without, say, Dad, without any kind of need for reliance or outside support in another way. But it's because we and by way, my husband and I have been able to set them on a path and set them up in a way that they have a leg up for themselves. So I think I use it as a tool to set up my children for the future.

Acquania Escarne 47:18

I love it. And I love setting kids up for success. We need all the advantages we can get. And I want to encourage you to keep doing what you're doing. You are helping black women through the divorce process, and providing a platform where we can find the resources we need. Especially in a environment where we are stigmatised we are stereotypes and sometimes silence so keep doing what you're doing. I will before you leave, though, please tell my listeners where can they find you. How can they connect?

Kimberly Cook 47:48

Yes, yes, yes. And thank you for having me on the Purpose of Money. You can go to the website, which is growngirldivorce.com. You can find us on social media platform. So Instagram, Facebook, also at growngirldivorce.com, LinkedIn Grown Girl Divorce. That's where you can find us. And then we have a podcast, where we feature black women and women of colour. Both experts and personal stories of women who've been through the process, and the podcast is Grown Girl Divorce podcast.

Acquania Escarne 48:27

Go figure. It's a great way to find it. Guys, I will make sure to include all the links in the show notes, so make sure you check it out. If you love this episode, or you know anyone who could benefit from listening to it, please please please share, share, share, sharing is caring. And while you're there, please leave a five star review because reviews help the podcast be seen by others who might be looking for this great content, and it is a great and free way to show your appreciation for the show. Until next time, guys keep building generational wealth.

Acquania Escarne 49:03

Thank you for listening to the Purpose of Money podcast. For more resources and information check out my website the purposeofmoney.com and while you're there, please sign up for our newsletter so you have the latest information on new episodes and blog posts. Until next time, keep creating freedom in your life today.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai